Hands on Western Fronts Armies

Haha, what balanced armour?
With tiger nerf..there is no ostheer armour left to balance.

What Tiger nerf. Please link me your source. By the way, the Panther isn't useless. The players using it are, but the tank isn't.

Panzer 4 is fine, finally much more in line with T-34/76. It can kill armour and infantry fine. Stugs are awesome in this Patch as well. Panther needs slight adjustments maybe but it is far from useless. Ele great as well.

Please post your player card as well.

So the best choice is making the Tiger the best tank, much better than its same-priced counterpart?

And German Tier 3 is 100% viable. German tier 4 is the one that sucks. Pz IV can compete the entire game, you must have mistaken the t34. A well microed ostwind can harrass infantry, and a stug is still fairly decent for its price and efficiency.

Oh wait. I micro my tanks.

Tell me how pz 4s can compete with is-2,su-85s,isu and sherman/t-34/85s.There is only 1 german tank left that could do that-tiger.Nerfing tiger does nothing if u also don't nerf t-34/85,sherman and make panther viable.On top of that is-2 will be buffed to now beat every german tank it seems.Alone nerfing tiger just kills the last ostheer tank that was able to make a fightback.

What Tiger nerf. Please link me your source. By the way, the Panther isn't useless. The players using it are, but the tank isn't.

Panzer 4 is fine, finally much more in line with T-34/76. It can kill armour and infantry fine. Stugs are awesome in this Patch as well. Panther needs slight adjustments maybe but it is far from useless. Ele great as well.

Please post your player card as well.

Well thats what many people are saying...not officially ofc.
Pz 4 maybe fine even with shitty scatter but its not an option vs medium call ins or soviet heavies.Only tiger can do that.Pnather used to till it was nerfed into oblivion to the point no one bothers to build it anymore let alone use it.

Tell me how pz 4s can compete with is-2,su-85s,isu and sherman/t-34/85s.There is only 1 german tank left that could do that-tiger.Nerfing tiger does nothing if u also don't nerf t-34/85,sherman and make panther viable.On top of that is-2 will be buffed to now beat every german tank it seems.Alone nerfing tiger just kills the last ostheer tank that was able to make a fightback.

Wtf is wrong with you? Tank on tanks? Ever hear of COMBINED ARMS? Pak 40's, teller mines, and panzerschrecks? Only a fool uses tanks to combat other tanks only. Panzer IV is perfect for that. Combined arms, that is. Use BOTH tier 2 and 3.

And German Tier 3 is 100% viable.

Oh wait. I micro my tanks.

When did i say its not viable..just that it can't compete with soviet late game.This is the truth.Tell me how u micro vs t-34/85s,shermans,is-2 and isus.U might get a flank in on su-85s if he's careless.

I have no problem with tiger being toned down as long as soviet armour is toned down too ..so germans can compete late game without tiger.Right now without tiger they can't.U take that away..ostheer is finished armourwise.This is not whining..just the meta.

When did i say its not viable..just that it can't compete with soviet late game.This is the truth.Tell me how u micro vs t-34/85s,shermans,is-2 and isus.U might get a flank in on su-85s if he's careless.

I have no problem with tiger being toned down as long as soviet armour is toned down too ..so germans can compete late game without tiger.Right now without tiger they can't.U take that away..ostheer is finished armourwise.This is not whining..just the meta.

I micro by using 2 panzer IV's supported by paks. If its not an ISU, it backs off. If i have an elefant, it never comes back. If i have a Tiger along with my panzer IV's and stugs, i keep an advantage. Panzerschrecks are there to piss soviet tanks off. Soviets were never allowed to complain that their tanks were inferior to German tanks throughout the entire game. And the answer to the whining was combined arms. So everyone was so used to combined arms, that when there was a patch, Germans did not know how to counter it since they were never forced to use it themselves.

Wtf is wrong with you? Tank on tanks? Ever hear of COMBINED ARMS? Pak 40's, teller mines, and panzerschrecks? Only a fool uses tanks to combat other tanks only. Panzer IV is perfect for that. Combined arms, that is. Use BOTH tier 2 and 3.

Yeah,yeah always stay on the defensive..desperately hold back soviet armor wave.U think u can push with paks?U think people actually build more than 1 shrecks pzgrens that die to 2 shots.U can hold out with paks,shrecks and pz 4s defensively for a while if ur placement is good .Ur never going to push with it..for that u need tanks.

Tiger was the tank that could push..the last german tank that could do that.Try pushing with ur pz 4s vs 85s,shermans,is-2 and 152.

I micro by using 2 panzer IV's supported by paks. If its not an ISU, it backs off. If i have an elefant, it never comes back. If i have a Tiger along with my panzer IV's and stugs, i keep an advantage. Panzerschrecks are there to piss soviet tanks off.

All defensively,and all mostly viable in 1 vs 1 only.

Yeah,yeah always stay on the defensive..desperately hold back soviet armor wave.U think u can push with paks?U think people actually build more than 1 shrecks pzgrens that die to 2 shots.U can hold out with paks,shrecks and pz 4s defensively for a while if ur placement is good .Ur never going to push with it..for that u need tanks.

Tiger was the tank that could push..the last german tank that could do that.Try pushing with ur pz 4s vs 85s,shermans,is-2 and 152.

Well, then you dont know how to play Germans. Combined arms only fails to ISU's one shotting and abused soviet early game dominance.

Well thats what many people are saying...not officially ofc.
Pz 4 maybe fine even with shitty scatter but its not an option vs medium call ins or soviet heavies.Only tiger can do that.Pnather used to till it was nerfed into oblivion to the point no one bothers to build it anymore let alone use it.

Care to name and shame these "people"? If they are breaking NDA then they shoudn't be allowed in it. If they are spreading crap then that's just as bad.

Panzer 4 is a perfect option vs soviet medium call ins. Expecting a Panzer 4 to kill an IS-2 is wrong, its not a dedicated AT tank nor does it come to close to the IS-2 in cost. Would you expect 1 T-34/76 to beat a Tiger? No, so why do you expect it to the happen the other way around. A tiger can beat 2x T-34/85's as well, saw it happen when Jesusin was playing Twister in the ESL 1v1 a few weeks back.

Panther was flat out OP and was brought down to a much more balanced level. Crying and crying that it sucks doesnt get anywhere, learning to use it as something other than a God mode tank does help. I frequently build Panthers and they work just fine because im not stuck in the Mindset of a pre nerf Panther.

There are far too many people that have / had an inflated ELO as Germany because of the imbalances after the March Patch who resort to crying soviet OP because they cant just Attack move a gren blob to win.

Well, then you dont know how to play Germans.

No,u didn't answer my question..with what do u push?Pz 4?

Early game..cuddle together and stay in cover lest the flamer in m3 roasts u.Late game cuddle together under protection of paks and shrecks with ur pz 4s lest soviet armour gets u..is this a way to play?It just feels restrictive and limited.

Pz 4s may be viable..against t-34s good.Against anything else u need to be very careful and need support units.Now u want that to be ur standard lategame armor vs t-34/85s.shermans,isu and is-2...i just don't see ur thing.Unless panther is revived u just can't hold out against those with pz 4s alone.Now maybe u have godly micro..and Op synergy...but humble little me is not that good.Fine go ahead declare me noob and L2P..lets see what happens once tiger is nerfed and germans have to rely solely on pz 4s.Mark my words if tiger is nerfed and is-2 buffed even with isu nerf, without corresponding changes in soviet medium call ins and panther staying where it is..u'll see total collapse of ostheer armor lategame next patch.

No,u didn't answer my question..with what do u push?Pz 4?

Early game..cuddle together and stay in cover lest the flamer in m3 roasts u.Late game cuddle together under protection of paks and shrecks with ur pz 4s lest soviet armour gets u..is this a way to play?It just feels restrictive and limited.

Pz 4s may be viable..against t-34s good.Against anything else u need to be very careful and need support units.Now u want that to be ur standard lategame armor vs t-34/85s.shermans,isu and is-2...i just don't see ur thing.Unless panther is revived u just can't hold out against those with pz 4s alone.Now maybe u have godly micro..and Op synergy...but humble little me is not that good.Fine go ahead declare me noob and L2P..lets see what happens once tiger is nerfed and germans have to rely solely on pz 4s.Mark my words if tiger is nerfed and is-2 buffed even with isu nerf, without corresponding changes in soviet medium call ins and panther staying where it is..u'll see total collapse of ostheer armor lategame next patch.

Can we see your player card please?

No,u didn't answer my question..with what do u push?Pz 4?

Early game..cuddle together and stay in cover lest the flamer in m3 roasts u.Late game cuddle together under protection of paks and shrecks with ur pz 4s lest soviet armour gets u..is this a way to play?It just feels restrictive and limited.

Pz 4s may be viable..against t-34s good.Against anything else u need to be very careful and need support units.Now u want that to be ur standard lategame armor vs t-34/85s.shermans,isu and is-2...i just don't see ur thing.Unless panther is revived u just can't hold out against those with pz 4s alone.Now maybe u have godly micro..and Op synergy...but humble little me is not that good.Fine go ahead declare me noob and L2P..lets see what happens once tiger is nerfed and germans have to rely solely on pz 4s.Mark my words if tiger is nerfed and is-2 buffed even with isu nerf, without corresponding changes in soviet medium call ins and panther staying where it is..u'll see total collapse of ostheer armor lategame next patch.

Anyways, you did list every soviet tank that costs more than a pz IV, so it wouldnt be suprising if something expensive kills something cheaper. Hopefully the release of WFA fixes some things. I referenced m3's are too difficult to counter conventionally, ISU destroys all Ostheer tactics, and hopefully Relic does something which makes German T4 overall more appealling. Not saying go back to the days of rushing t4 and first tank as panther, but somehow allow investing in t3 can have a better chance of getting t4. Investing in t4 alone makes you lose, and you have to forget t4 when you start protecting yourself with t3. And katyusha and panzerwerfer are currently terrible.

Care to name and shame these "people"? If they are breaking NDA then they shoudn't be allowed in it. If they are spreading crap then that's just as bad.

Panzer 4 is a perfect option vs soviet medium call ins. Expecting a Panzer 4 to kill an IS-2 is wrong, its not a dedicated AT tank nor does it come to close to the IS-2 in cost. Would you expect 1 T-34/76 to beat a Tiger? No, so why do you expect it to the happen the other way around. A tiger can beat 2x T-34/85's as well, saw it happen when Jesusin was playing Twister in the ESL 1v1 a few weeks back.

Panther was flat out OP and was brought down to a much more balanced level. Crying and crying that it sucks doesnt get anywhere, learning to use it as something other than a God mode tank does help. I frequently build Panthers and they work just fine because im not stuck in the Mindset of a pre nerf Panther.

There are far too many people that have / had an inflated ELO as Germany because of the imbalances after the March Patch who resort to crying soviet OP because they cant just Attack move a gren blob to win.

Those were on the other forum by a non alpha tester who somehow got the info .And a alpha tester gave a thinly veiled pseudo confirmation.

Panzer 4 is not a 'perfect option' at all..its a poor man's option.It can't stand upto 1 t-34/85 ,let alone 2.Now if the germans had panther to fall back on to deal with these medium call ins..tehre wouldn't be issues....but they can't due to price differences.So that leaves tiger,(ur talking about tiger beating 2 t-34/85s like it has no right to..something exceptional..unthinkable..lol)...now once this unit goes...I'll be happy if they reduced tiger ai for increased AT even..but if its AT is lowered to below IS-2..then it becomes hopeless.

There is no crying..go see the meta..what it was no longer matters,what matters is what it is now..it was OP..nerfed..fine..but now its extinct.I often see these posters claim i often build panthers..but in serious matches replays will u see them.So where do these built panthers go i wonder?Whether its balanced or not doesn't matter when it costs so much that its not built in the first place..a niche unit that can't do its job....can't hold back soviet medium armour wave..even when it costs more to get.And obviously useless against everything else than tanks.

Gren blob...lol that's german players fault?Who made m3 cars destroy every german t1 unit save grens..who made sniper a paper?Mg 42 taking 1000 years to pack up and shit in buildings?Panzergrenadiers extinct pricewise?When options are taken away u do with what u have...

Can we not shit up one of the few good threads with your stupid fanboy wars?

Thank you.

IMO,

Are far as core AFV go, Stug III G and Tiger are the cost effective ones.

The Panzer IV became an average value and the Panther became a below average value.

Like in vcoh, Stug spam (a stug wall) with grens, pak, and support weapons does work.

Of course, this conversation is off topic. That much I agree.

Anyways, you did list every soviet tank that costs more than a pz IV, so it wouldnt be suprising if something expensive kills something cheaper.

Do i have an option over pz 4 that costs more that can give performance?No.
Panther..not cost-effective.

The only thing that costed more but could perform was tiger.Thats the gripe.Cost is fine if performance is equal to it.Ostheer don't get medium call ins..and panther can't counter them due to crippling cost.

Other than that yes i hope for some positive changes as well.
Ok no more offtopic posts.

Something was said about fallshirmjagers - they do come with fg42's. The benefit of OKW is that assault rifles and machine guns are standards. I read a little about it, the German forces of the Battle of the Bulge were equipped with many stg44's and panzerfausts.

And the fact that the fg42 was used exclusively by german paratroopers.

Something was said about fallshirmjagers - they do come with fg42's. The benefit of OKW is that assault rifles and machine guns are standards. I read a little about it, the German forces of the Battle of the Bulge were equipped with many stg44's and panzerfausts.

Wonder if the scopes are upgradeable or inherent...and if they are upgradeable how they change performance.Others things to watch out are it reinforce cost and armour..if armour is too low and reinforce too high..pzgren like problem.If armour too high -problem..reinforce too low-people will start using blobs as standard infantry-problem.

Wonder if the scopes are upgradeable or inherent...and if they are upgradeable how they change performance.Others things to watch out are it reinforce cost and armour..if armour is too low and reinforce too high..pzgren like problem.If armour too high -problem..reinforce too low-people will start using blobs as standard infantry-problem.

The fg42 was always used scoped. Probably no armor, high cost to deploy, and a high reinforce cost. The thing is, it does everything; it has a bundled nade for displacing units in cover, panzerfaust for stalling armored units, and a toxic smoke grenade to deny cover and block LoS. It also does not have the panzergrenadier problem - if a conscript squad charges an fallshirms and they are both in no cover, the falshirmjagers, in theory, should demolish the conscripts before they get close to damage it, and the fallshirmjagers should suffer no losses. fg42's should have stg44 dps at a much longer range.