Ostheer Sniper (1v1), Large Post

In my opinion there is a significant (and unjustified) difference in terms of efficiency and survive ability between the ostheer and soviet snipers, and that should be reconsidered.

The efficiency issue was largely explained by previous posters, but I also think squad size plays a huge role in the effectiveness equation. While ost snipers can be efficiently countered by several units in the soviet arsenal, soviet snipers with guard or at nade support are a lot more tough to (hard)counter.

I would say 80% of the 2v2s I play, I always face a double sniper into guards strat, which is by far the hardest play to counter if executed by a competent player.

On the opposite side, I've never seen a viable sniper strat from the ostheer. Thus the question becomes did Relic design snipers intentionally that way, or is this issue something that needs further analysis and change?

I think a major problem for the German sniper is that Soviets try to get into close range anyway (Oorah for example), therefore he needs to be microed all the time. On the other hand the Soviet sniper is more or less safe at a distance. Compared to the Soviet sniper team the German sniper is way too squishy.

Hm. At present, in both 1v1 and 2v2, the Soviet sniper often serves as central unit to many builds and if well utilized often decides the game. Its German counterpart on the other hand is IMO barely viable, since at most it serves as a good supplementary unit that might cost the Soviet player a disproportionate amount of manpower. However it needs to be constantly babysitted and as has been said, is just too vulnerable to RNG, including smallarms fire, mortar shells and mines thus taking up an inordinate amount of attention,whereas once you hit the 2 sniper critical mass with Soviet snipers you can more or less a-move across the map with relative impunity and force instant retreats from any given single German inf. squad. In any case, the German sniper is everything but a valid counter to the Soviet sniper, thats just nonsense. As long as you dont have vet1, (which you will not get unless you, well, snipe regular stuff, giving away your game and alerting the Soviet player to the existence of your sniper)you cant really endanger the Sov. sniper anyways, and even if you have the ability it is very much up to chance while the Soviet countersnipe isnt...and that omits some other metafactors that work in the Soviet advantage here, such as squadsizes, ura, etc..

Is 2easy to retreat with soviet sniper... They can withstand some good shots, and after you click on retreat, is OK... The retreat system is a bad problem, not the sniper's at all, maybe some little armor will be fine... If they dont touch the retreat (2unreal) system...

Some player's are using 2 sniper's in early game, if they could put up the sniper on top of the tank, they doo!!! Thankfully not!!!

Just because the german sniper can't one shot the soviet sniper doesn't mean its not a good countersnipe unit. It's 90mp a shot and it only takes one shot to really discourage aggressive play from the soviet snipers.

Just because the german sniper can't one shot the soviet sniper doesn't mean its not a good countersnipe unit. It's 90mp a shot and it only takes one shot to really discourage aggressive play from the soviet snipers.

If you chose to counter snipe a soviet model the remaining model will likely kill you before you can recloak. I frequently place my soviet sniper out in open just long enough to bait an Ost sniper (when I see it) to get him to decloak if I know he is in minimal cover. Once he shoots I am sure to get the counter shot and kill. If he chooses not to fire I move forward with my scout car or scripts.

I don't think it matters that the Ost sniper can't go toe to toe with Soviet sniper team, in fact I kind of like it that way. But Ost sniper is under performing against T2 builds which is unacceptable.

I should be getting a sniper when I see shock troopers on the field. As it stands I just get an mg because I cannot rely on a sniper to get the job done.

Just because the german sniper can't one shot the soviet sniper doesn't mean its not a good countersnipe unit. It's 90mp a shot and it only takes one shot to really discourage aggressive play from the soviet snipers.

The other way around its 360 mp a pop. That shot is marginally more difficult to perform, true, but its vastly more damaging since the squad and its vet is toast... The Soviet sniper is much more of a counter to the German one then vice versa.

If you chose to counter snipe a soviet model the remaining model will likely kill you before you can recloak.

If you place ger sniper in green cover, he will recover quicker then sov sniper can aim.

@Daniel: An addendum, saw you watching Luvnests stream. Nice examples of how Snipers constantly enable mediocre Soviet players to beat good German ones, n'est-ce pas? They certainly have that effect on me

If you place ger sniper in green cover, he will recover quicker then sov sniper can aim.

I am aware, that is what I alluded to in the rest of my post. There are other factors at work here though, if Ost sniper is spotted soviet sniper will not fire until he is vulnerable. Also T1 provides excellent hard counter in scout car.

I think it is fine if Soviet sniper outright beats Ost sniper, as long as Ost sniper becomes deadly against T2 as it should be.

+1 VonIvan.
German snipers are not useless, but compared to soviet snipers and the same cost, they really are useless.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, some good discussion and ideas

I believed that at vet 2, the German snipers camo was improved, hence my idea of gaining vet quicker (and at vet 3, he becomes a quickscoping call of duty esque sniper), but i'm not 100% sure about the camo improvement at vet 2.

A simple health increase and armor buff would be a pretty straightforward improvement, I was hesitant to suggest it, as it appeared the Ostheer sniper was made very squishy by design, but now that I think about it, a similar armor and health profile to say, a shock trooper would be nice (I think Dane said, currently he is closer to the profile of a gren!)

Edit: i'm not sure of exact numbers on HP here for units, I just picked the shock trooper arbitrarily as an example.

Snipers are fine. Please don't change them.

If you chose to counter snipe a soviet model the remaining model will likely kill you before you can recloak. I frequently place my soviet sniper out in open just long enough to bait an Ost sniper (when I see it) to get him to decloak if I know he is in minimal cover.

If the Ostheer sniper is trying to counter snipe a soviet sniper w/o cover that is bad play. If the Ost sniper is in cover he will recloak before you can get a shot off. As Daniel said, all it takes is one counter snipe to discourage a soviet sniper from running wild.

Just my two cents, I play a lot of 2v2's with both factions and I really dig the German sniper, the fast cloak gives you a fair amount of flexibility with movement and I kind of get the impression whenever I build one that the russian player(s) just don't expect to be counter sniped. Not pro or anything just my two cents

why can a cons squad kill a sniper from long range. Is this intentional the way it is?

why can a cons squad kill a sniper from long range. Is this intentional the way it is?

Oh, you know, probably because they have rifles and not pitchforks as surprisingly many ost only players expect them to have.

Rifles are these things that shot bullets, and bullets are these little things that make people on their way dead.

Also, grens can do the same.

If the Ostheer sniper is trying to counter snipe a soviet sniper w/o cover that is bad play. If the Ost sniper is in cover he will recloak before you can get a shot off. As Daniel said, all it takes is one counter snipe to discourage a soviet sniper from running wild.

Ost sniper must be in heavy cover, anything else and he will not cloak fast enough.

Again it is completely fine that Ost sniper is hard countered or almost so by Soviet sniper. Ost snipe just needs to be terrific at killing support teams and Shocks. At the moment RNG and only moderate effectiveness limit Ost sniper's usefulness.

Snipers are fine. Please don't change them.

I appreciate your a pretty good, top 10 player Vindicare so if you could please expand upon this that would be great . I believe sniper play in VCoh took a while to develop, so i'm open to other opinions.

Oh, you know, probably because they have rifles and not pitchforks as surprisingly many ost only players expect them to have.

Rifles are these things that shot bullets, and bullets are these little things that make people on their way dead.

Also, grens can do the same.

For realz? I was hoping to acheive an extended range pitch fork bulletin