Thoughts on the Stale 2v2 Meta (ISU v Ele)

Of course it does. My message was just as provoking as Kronosaur0s's. I was saying it's also possible to flank ISU and was asking why did he state that it's automatically gg wp.

lool I wasnt provoking, I was saying facts.
Yes, you can flank a noob player. But try to flank skilled soviet that lays mines around, has AT nades near and add also Guards + button (it comes with ISU doctrine).
What you have if you dont have Elefant to counter it? GG

At the begining I thought that thi isn't so bad. But it is. The game is badly screwed because of (from the worst unbalanced unit to the less):
- ISU
- soviet mines
- PzGrens overnerf
- soviet sniper
- exaggerate shock troopers effectiveness.

Every game I play now against soviets in 2v2, is the same retarded strategy and I am sick and tired of chasing with 2 or more SC the sniper avalanche and rushing Elefants.

This is getting retarded, who the hell will want to play this game anymore. Relic should do something about it pretty quick it's not such a big deal after all.

At the begining I thought that thi isn't so bad. But it is. The game is badly screwed because of (from the worst unbalanced unit to the less):
- ISU
- soviet mines
- PzGrens overnerf
- soviet sniper
- exaggerate shock troopers effectiveness.

Every game I play now against soviets in 2v2, is the same retarded strategy and I am sick and tired of chasing with 2 or more SC the sniper avalanche and rushing Elefants.

This is getting retarded, who the hell will want to play this game anymore. Relic should do something about it pretty quick it's not such a big deal after all.

Another post from german ministry of propaganda sswhiney nerf Russians ,buff germans same old tune.

Maybe the gaps missing in each faction at the moment are to be filled with western front armies as in rangers having bazooka's and your going to need isu when you got kingtiger tiger elephant jadgpanther 88's on the battlefield.

The game is broken now, as it was last patch and the other one. And with Western front is gonna be more broken even. There's a balance issue to fix, of course, but the design of game keeps breaking any competitive play. I thought a lot of commanders would increase the strategy of game -how stupid i was- but the commanders have such broken habilities that is always the same shit with diferent models.
I remeber in coh1 with 3 commanders wich everyone had his strong and weak points and where made for every single situation. For instance, to kill a simple ARTY you needed to base rush and drop some kind of artillery or so. In this you can recon, bomb and kill. There are tons os über artillerys strafins tha tkill everything on random. Super late game units meant weak early trees habilities -wich does not happen here you can have heavies, infantry, arty on same commanders-. The non vinculated popcap to territory is absolutely dumb. You can have no map control but call in your heavies just to destroy anything -for what is harassing now?-.

At this point, nothing can be done cause commander are sold -p2win-. The only thing that can be done, but never will, is redesign the commanders as something about focus commanders habilities on early-mid-late game -non super commanders that work in every stage- and balance heavies to make useful non doctrinal tanks.

EDIT: I have to say that moreover i play this game, more i miss coh1. Coh2 was suposed to be an improvement of coh1 mechanics -for instance true sight- and new history immersion. But not, they changed the basic of coh1 -wich was tested, played build over years of community- to make some RTS Random arcade game. They changed what should not be changed, and they kept the things that should be improved. Epic fail. You guys can say what you want, but every mid-skilled player in coh1 who plays coh2 will admit that this game is far away from the old day strategies and maneuverings of coh1.

Of course it does. My message was just as provoking as Kronosaur0s's. I was saying it's also possible to flank ISU and was asking why did he state that it's automatically gg wp.

Good luck flanking an ISU-152 in 2v2 on Semoski.

Good luck flanking an ISU-152 in 2v2 on Semoski.

Semoski is a terrible map, you're supposed to vote it out.

The game is broken now, as it was last patch and the other one. And with Western front is gonna be more broken even. There's a balance issue to fix, of course, but the design of game keeps breaking any competitive play. I thought a lot of commanders would increase the strategy of game -how stupid i was- but the commanders have such broken habilities that is always the same shit with diferent models.
I remeber in coh1 with 3 commanders wich everyone had his strong and weak points and where made for every single situation. For instance, to kill a simple ARTY you needed to base rush and drop some kind of artillery or so. In this you can recon, bomb and kill. There are tons os über artillerys strafins tha tkill everything on random. Super late game units meant weak early trees habilities -wich does not happen here you can have heavies, infantry, arty on same commanders-. The non vinculated popcap to territory is absolutely dumb. You can have no map control but call in your heavies just to destroy anything -for what is harassing now?-.

At this point, nothing can be done cause commander are sold -p2win-. The only thing that can be done, but never will, is redesign the commanders as something about focus commanders habilities on early-mid-late game -non super commanders that work in every stage- and balance heavies to make useful non doctrinal tanks.

EDIT: I have to say that moreover i play this game, more i miss coh1. Coh2 was suposed to be an improvement of coh1 mechanics -for instance true sight- and new history immersion. But not, they changed the basic of coh1 -wich was tested, played build over years of community- to make some RTS Random arcade game. They changed what should not be changed, and they kept the things that should be improved. Epic fail. You guys can say what you want, but every mid-skilled player in coh1 who plays coh2 will admit that this game is far away from the old day strategies and maneuverings of coh1.

The game is far from broken, there are a few balance issues and mines being too good, but nothing I would call broken. The last patch where the Soviet's basic infantry was underperforming is what I would call broken.

The game is far from broken, there are a few balance issues and mines being too good, but nothing I would call broken. The last patch where the Soviet's basic infantry was underperforming is what I would call broken.

just another coh nostalgia post because that is what we need more in every threads.

The game is broken now, as it was last patch and the other one. And with Western front is gonna be more broken even. There's a balance issue to fix, of course, but the design of game keeps breaking any competitive play. I thought a lot of commanders would increase the strategy of game -how stupid i was- but the commanders have such broken habilities that is always the same shit with diferent models.
I remeber in coh1 with 3 commanders wich everyone had his strong and weak points and where made for every single situation. For instance, to kill a simple ARTY you needed to base rush and drop some kind of artillery or so. In this you can recon, bomb and kill. There are tons os über artillerys strafins tha tkill everything on random. Super late game units meant weak early trees habilities -wich does not happen here you can have heavies, infantry, arty on same commanders-. The non vinculated popcap to territory is absolutely dumb. You can have no map control but call in your heavies just to destroy anything -for what is harassing now?-.

At this point, nothing can be done cause commander are sold -p2win-. The only thing that can be done, but never will, is redesign the commanders as something about focus commanders habilities on early-mid-late game -non super commanders that work in every stage- and balance heavies to make useful non doctrinal tanks.

EDIT: I have to say that moreover i play this game, more i miss coh1. Coh2 was suposed to be an improvement of coh1 mechanics -for instance true sight- and new history immersion. But not, they changed the basic of coh1 -wich was tested, played build over years of community- to make some RTS Random arcade game. They changed what should not be changed, and they kept the things that should be improved. Epic fail. You guys can say what you want, but every mid-skilled player in coh1 who plays coh2 will admit that this game is far away from the old day strategies and maneuverings of coh1.

Yup, it's pretty crazy. COH 2 is different than from coh 1!

Semoski is a terrible map, you're supposed to vote it out.

As if it were any better on rails&metal, rzhew, minsk etc.... There go your vetos

Yup, it's pretty crazy. COH 2 is different than from coh 1!

Problem is not being different, problem is just been worse. Look how many high levels player quit the game and how many from coh1 just stop playing after trying it. So likes as colours, just my opinion as old player in coh1 for several years. And its not about nostalgia, its just a fact.

Remember back about COH, each armies only have 3 commanders but most of them were working.

5 years from now on when COH3 come out, we will remember back about COH2: Each armies have tons of commander and about 20% are shitty.

Solution imo: Decrease range on both the elefant and the ISU to like 75. Give the ISU a higher scatter ratio so it has a higher chance of missing gren squads. Reduce the dmg output of an elefant so that it's equivalent to a tiger, but give it an option to lock down(like the Marder in VCoH) where it is able to deal the dmg it has done before, but be forced into place. (Takes lets say 8 seconds for it to move out of place once it's put into place at w/e time you decide you want to move it). This allows for both units to still be effective, but with limitations. Arty, multiple tanks, etc... will be able to counter it effectively if unsupported/unwatched.

[...]Give the ISU a higher scatter ratio so it has a higher chance of missing gren squads. [...]

Sounds like a bad idea. There is one thing CoH2 does not need any more of: RNG squad wipes.

Seems like the new meta goes like this nowadays:

soviets riding germans until endgame when both german players begin to spam tigers or tiger and Elefant. Sometimes these machines turn the tides, sometimes they don't.
From 3 2v2 games yesterday, all 3 ended in "kursk like" heavy tanks battles (only call-ins) with few infantry left on the field and the majority of them engeneers to repair the tanks of course. Yesterday I didn't see ISU 152 on the battlefield but alot of IS-2 and Tigers. Strange.

Gsus, I didn't see a Panther from ages, or a T34/85. Maybe a few T34/76 or Su-85s.

Right now the game is blocked in stereotyped game recips. Seems like german only chance is to bring Tigers, as manny as possible. And after several Tigers hit the field, the game is "balanced". Nice. a balanced game for the last 10-15 minutes of it. Lol.

Seems like the new meta goes like this nowadays:

soviets riding germans until endgame when both german players begin to spam tigers or tiger and Elefant. Sometimes these machines turn the tides, sometimes they don't.
From 3 2v2 games yesterday, all 3 ended in "kursk like" heavy tanks battles (only call-ins) with few infantry left on the field and the majority of them engeneers to repair the tanks of course. Yesterday I didn't see ISU 152 on the battlefield but alot of IS-2 and Tigers. Strange.

Gsus, I didn't see a Panther from ages, or a T34/85. Maybe a few T34/76 or Su-85s.

Right now the game is blocked in stereotyped game recips. Seems like german only chance is to bring Tigers, as manny as possible. And after several Tigers hit the field, the game is "balanced". Nice. a balanced game for the last 10-15 minutes of it. Lol.

In 2v2 and up I have to agree with you.
Whatever people say about call-ins shouldn't be restricted and stuff, it's just a bloody heavy tank war every god damn game.

In 2v2 and up I have to agree with you.
Whatever people say about call-ins shouldn't be restricted and stuff, it's just a bloody heavy tank war every god damn game.

1v1 seems pretty ok though

Limiting heavy tanks would be good way to go.
Didn't they did try to do this some time ago when they increased the pop values?

I think ISU and elephant both need looking at, personally with the ISU I like the idea of the HE/AP round switching meaning its either AT or AI then its comparable to elephant but for its inferior AT it has AI capabilities.

A lock down ability on the elephant and/or removal of scope or forward sight is necessary I think. I would argue for lock down on the ISU but then its basically just an expensive KV2?

Alot of people are arguing elephant is balanced but ISU not? don't see this at all tbh. Yes ISU is OP atm and this is more noticeable than with the elephant but imagine there is no ISU then look at elephant and you will see its crazy OP.

I think that it has always been unbalanced its just people didn't capitalise on it before because of the broken tank system with panthers p4 blitz etc made it unnecessary. I have played alot of 2v2's lately and tried to not use the ISU and use IS2 or t34's and yeah it works great till Germans pull out an elephant then its gg.

I admit sometimes I do the same as German's if I see the enemies have not gone with an ISU commander and I have option for pak43 or elephant I know I just need to hold on till end game and I will have a huge advantage. The damage of both of these units is ridiculous a trick I like to do is use the map hack ability, hold fire till the enemy tank is well into the range then by the time it realises it’s been attacked it can’t escape before you kill it.

Medium tanks in 2 shot? wut? lol keep exaggerating. It is 3 shots. And yes, with the slow firing rate of the Elefant, 1 SINGLE shot can make difference, so saying 2 instead of 3..thats too much.
And it kills ISU in 4 shots, not 3.

Also correct me If I am wrong but su85 and t34 have 640HP elephant dmg is 320………

With a pak 43 it’s even worse because the stun shot lets you effectively kill any tank with 960hp or less. (it has the same bug as ISU where you can use the ability shot without waiting for the reload time = 2 shots and stun in few secs then final shot whilst tank is still stunned).
Given this unit is static however I don’t have any problems with it atm but it is rarely used so who knows.

Both units need addressing and yes this is the biggest problem in 2v2 atm.

but stun shot for pak43 does not work through houses. So you can almost never use it.

The reason call-ins are so dominant is that teching is so comparatively expensive.

The first T34/76 you build will cost you 220 fuel (120 + 100).

The first IS2 you build will cost you 230 fuel.

The situation is exactly the same for Germans.

If you can wait long enough for a call-in and avoid teching, it makes sense to do so.

Requiring teching for heavy callins is the solution imo as has been suggested numerous times.