Honest opinions about Balance - Soviet adv

Use your brains. The changes did to infantry units in terms of accuracy, moving accuracy etc diminished big time the cover effect so it's not like they changed ANYTHING ABOUT COVER. This was done because soviets could not brainlessly charge anymore with shocks and whatever whithout regard to cover. It was a good change, game felt verry tactical. The only thing they should have done was fix pioneers and a minor dps nerf to german small arms. They changed other things instead and now we got ourselves back to a similar system to what it was before 25 march. Now it's clearer? Apparently to few liked the tactical system that march patch proposed, and for that reason Relic did in such way that it diminished its effects in such extent that now are barely perceptible.




No, but instead is listening to soviet fanboys nonsenses and whinings and I can guarantee you, the patches changes are proving this. The G43 DID LOSE to PPSH conscripts before 25 march and anyone said different was never in such a combat situation. You will say that you were. I tell you from now this is bullshit. nobody stood at distance if they used a ppsh against a g43 right? I never said soviets were OP after march patch. I said that german faction felt a little OP and some minor changes were needed (not nerfings tot the ground like now and buffings to some soviet units).



Really? Really? Oh, why didn't you say so? Oh my God now I can counter shocks, yopeee!!!

Ok, I'll tellya what I will do to your 2 gren squads with my shocks. 1 - rush in close quarter to one squad while throwing a grenade in the other gren squad. (tip: did ya know that if you give the throwing grenade command after the moving command the animation will be difficult to spot by your opponent? If you don't know why, just go back to vCoh and see some examples with riflemen and volks and you'll understand, I don't want to write that much now). Ok... the rushed squad will die pretty quickly and the hit by grenade one will currently have at most 2 models. The winner is obvious now, isn't it. As for lmg gren squad, I wouldn't even bother to explain anything to you. You shouldn't even seriously think at this as a counter. A properly used shock squad cannot be hit by a rifle nade. And even if it was, what damage it will do as long as now a rifle gren kills one - maybe two maxim models? It's hilarious at list.
The problem is that shock troops can't be countered but by much expensive counterpart units and by no type of german infantry whatsoever.




I almost agree on this one but only to the first proposition. Elefant it's ok, but if ISU gets its range nerfed so should the Elefant.

P.S. Soviet fanboys, attaaaack!

im just speechless... How much hours do you have in this game? 10?
I can't say anything because your understanding of the game is zero.

If you think that cover is less important now.

PLEASE READ THE CHANGELOG.
I have no idea where you get this illusion from.

Also, during march deployment, the game did not feel very tactical at all. Well, it felt tactical for soviets, during march deployment, you had to massively outplay your opponent during early, mid, and late game due to all of them being at a soviet disadvantage.
Let me explain why.
Conscripts were inferior to grens with no upgrades, and were useless when grens got upgrades.

M3A1 was super squishy.
Snipers were OK
penal troops were ok until grenadiers got lmg 42 or g43.

all of T-2 was suicide due to riflegrenades

T-3 was still inferior to german T-3
Why?

T-34 was a battering ram
T-70 came out 30 seconds before panzer IV, same with M5 , but it could reinforce, so it was somewhat ok

T-4
SU-85 okay until P IV gets vet 1
Katyusha - never killed anyone
su-76 really squishy, but "okay"

Grenadiers = great unit, superior to their soviet counterpart while costing the same.To the point that grens in light cover beat cons in heavy cover.
Mortar = 40% faster RoF than soviet mortar
MG 42 = good, as always, however useless because you cannot A-move with it
Sniper = I admit, too squishy

T-2
Pgrens = Murder machines, vet 0 pgrens win againts vet 3 penals with flamethrower. Best non doctrinal inf. Beat shock troops 100% of the time.
PAK 40 = 50% better ROF than ZIS-3
Scout car = doom car, obliterates inf
Halftrack = i admit, too pricey.

T-3 P-IV = best non doctrinal medium tank, beats its soviet counterpart very significantly.
Stugs = all soviet armor was allready crap so they were pretty pointless
Ostwind = good if you want to try some hipster strategy with pak 43

T-4 Panther = Blitzing trought everything and comin out alive, murderin everythin and you cant do anything
Brumbarr = crazy good againts inf also beats a t-34/85 1v1
Panzerwerfer= Garuanteed squadwipe unless you retreat as soon as you hear it

Doctrinal inf

Assgrens = cheaper than shock troops but almost better because mp 40 does more damage at range.
Soviet gaurds = ridiciluosly expensive dp-28, super valnurable.
Shocks = kill nothing because ppsh is a sword for some reason

Doctrinal tanks
Elephant = Op in team games
isu-152 = useless piece of crap in 1v1 due to high cost, and useless in team games due to low pen (150 lower and an su-85) and blitzkrieg panthers
IS-2 = only decent soviet tank, good againts INF due to horrible german squad intelligence. Still loses to the cheaper tiger.
T-34/85 expensive, somewhat better than the PIV tank, decent but still horrible againts heavy tanks(tiger). Unless you have mark vehicle.
KV-1 t-34/76 aka cant penetrate anything and even lacks the battering ram... Slow. Not going to kill any tank with it due to it being so slow and such a shitty gun
KV-2 ........ ???
KV-8 - the only soviet unit that is "OP" but if you have a tank of your own you could sort of keep it away, not kill it, but keep it away from your inf.
Panzer IV command tank = good for creative people who like creative strategies.
Tiger- pretty good againts inf, really good againts soviet medium and heavy armour.
stug E- piece of crap

As you can see, soviets were behind in ALL points in the game.





P.S if a properly used shock troop squad cant get hit by a rifle grenade, a properly used gren squad cant get hit by a shock grenade.
Like i said, unless you are playing a close quarters map (stalingrad) shocks are not cost efficent. Why? The best they can do is force a retreat. They will kill zero people. Because ppsh for some reason in the game is an equivalent of a sword. Does zero damage at range. If shocks get close in, simply retreat. No casaulties done. If he advances while under fire, he will lose considerable casaulties while approaching.
Riflegrenade damage was not changed. What was changed that it does less damage to team weapons. Molotovs now also do less damage to team weapons. 2 riflegrenades still force off a maxim.
Lmg gren does not need a riflegrenade to force off a shock troop squad. It will atleast kill 2 guys before shock troops get in close,and even if they get close you can press "T" and retreat. No casaulties taken, casaulties done = 2. The squad needs to stand still, but it's pretty hard to press S on the keyboard. So it requires extreme concentration, because if your not concentrated, when using your LMG gren, you might accidentally hit "T" which will make your squad retreat.


Oh and grenadier DPS was not nerfed. Conscript dps was buffed by 7% at mid and long range. Guess that makes conscripts too powerful.

LMG 42 was a no brainer update, it still is, it does more damage than a kar 98k at ALL ranges.

P.S if a properly used shock troop squad cant get hit by a rifle grenade, a properly used gren squad cant get hit by a shock grenade.

Disagree. A rifle nade takes an eternity to reach its target, while shock grenade has a bigger velocity. Chances you dodge a shock grenade is smaller than dodging a rifle nade. Or am I playing better with soviets?

Like i said, unless you are playing a close quarters map (stalingrad) shocks are not cost efficent. Why? The best they can do is force a retreat. They will kill zero people. Because ppsh for some reason in the game is an equivalent of a sword. Does zero damage at range. If shocks get close in, simply retreat. No casaulties done. If he advances while under fire, he will lose considerable casaulties while approaching.

If I retreat, i lose my cover, and I'm even easier to kill. A max. of 1 model means considerable casualities? Who is staying at range with shocks? If I try to keep distance, this means I should constantly move backwards and that means accuracy penalty (higher than for shocks)because I'm shooting while moving. A moving gren squad existing from cover shooting at shocks - is that the solution?!?

It will atleast kill 2 guys before shock troops get in close,and even if they get close you can press "T" and retreat. No casaulties taken, casaulties done = 2. The squad needs to stand still, but it's pretty hard to press S on the keyboard. So it requires extreme concentration, because if your not concentrated, when using your LMG gren, you might accidentally hit "T" which will make your squad retreat.

I would say a max. 2 models, not at least. So I should retreat everytime and lose ground. Got it.

LMG 42 was a no brainer update, it still is, it does more damage than a kar 98k at ALL ranges.

It supposed to. Otherwise it should cost 0, isn't it?

Do me a favour and stop posting your pro soviet garbage in my thread.

Post your own thread and do what you want.

You talk crap and are here to offset all reasonable arguments that soviets are now imbalanced.

In short: fuck off.

You didnt even reason why his comment was "crap". Honestly you just lash out at people on the forums rather than debate. His post was completely logical. Shrecks are balanced now that Soviet vehicles do more vs infantry. Its not like the faction has infantry held AT they can rely on like the German faction. If shrecks were any better there would only be shreck mobs running about like the ranger blobs of old.

I dont always agree with katitof, but at least he uses logic and reasonable arguments (some times its sarcastic and in dickish tone) unlike you

Dude, if I find the reload + aim time way to long (also on guards), than that's my opinion. 'no point in making T3 and T4 when they would lower it' is your opinion.
No point in acting like 'my opinion is the truth'.

He could of phrased it better, but It if shrecks had a lower reload time they would get two salvos out before tanks could get away and fight. If Soviets had a similar situation it would be balanced for both sides to have a lower reload time, but because Soviets do not they have to start relying on armor to deal with the better German late game troops.

We would have shreck mobs running about like the airborne or ranger mobs of old wrecking everything which would not be fun.

Disagree. A rifle nade takes an eternity to reach its target, while shock grenade has a bigger velocity. Chances you dodge a shock grenade is smaller than dodging a rifle nade. Or am I playing better with soviets?



If I retreat, i lose my cover, and I'm even easier to kill. A max. of 1 model means considerable casualities? Who is staying at range with shocks? If I try to keep distance, this means I should constantly move backwards and that means accuracy penalty (higher than for shocks)because I'm shooting while moving. A moving gren squad existing from cover shooting at shocks - is that the solution?!?



I would say a max. 2 models, not at least. So I should retreat everytime and lose ground. Got it.



It supposed to. Otherwise it should cost 0, isn't it?

Hmm, ever heard of reinforce sucess not failure? Shocks getting close in means a bad engagement. You retreat from a bad engagement. But i guess you dont understand that. Could be one of the reasons you think shocks are OP. and even if shocks WERE as powerful as you think they are, what is wrong with the MOST expensive ANTI infantry unit being able to kill infantry AS efficently more than any other unit? Hint : Shocks are extremely not cost efficent because they dont kill anyone. What's wrong with that? Your not supposed to counter the elephant with armor, why do you need to counter shock troops with infantry? Hint : MG42 also does wonders againts shock troops. Smoke grenade? Simply reposition your mg 42. Shock troops were never ever ever a problem.

Like i said, lmg grens will reliably pick 2-3 guys off before shocks get close in.

2 grens destroy shocks no problem. BECAUSE RUSHING CLOSE RANGE IS NOT EASY. Read "march deployment patch"

Man, hard times, some guys are making cons spam to cut off early game position, and stay that, with no resources early game i quit in 1 minute... The cons in early game never die, when i have only shit mp40 or kv98, the MG42 on fire by molotov is a weak pin and slow aiming... Wanna god mod for german infantry too...

Get fast T2, up gunned 222.. Kite the cons all day and watch them bleed.

Panzer Elite lives on.

There is no quick counter early on for 222. It out ranges guards now, con flank is most reliable, but not easy against a switched on opponent.

An early ZiS loses field presence and isn't exactly sure to take out a 222.

Get fast T2, up gunned 222.. Kite the cons all day and watch them bleed.

Panzer Elite lives on.

There is no quick counter early on for 222. It out ranges guards now, con flank is most reliable, but not easy against a switched on opponent.

Ya, this is working well for me too. It's a good counter to heavy clowns too, you've just gotta hold on to your fuel until t2.

Watched lolipop play the other, Jesus his 222 micro was amazing!

Umm, aim time for shrecks is 50% faster then for PTRS(1 sec for shrecks, 2 sec for PTRS).
Its easier to shoot at T-70 with shrecks then it is to shoot at 221 with PTRS.

And on a unrelated note, last night shreck rocket instakilled 4 of my con models in a first shot, was hilarious.

DAFUG dude?
schreck miss like fuck and PTRS never miss, I don't even mention the long reload time, travel time of the rocket, and the retardness of PG shooting their cover instead of their target.


For the above shit I don't even bother to quote

Inf in this patch

Grens, assuming with good micro, still being the best infantry in the game, G43 won't worth getting through

Cons, fair in 1v1, OP bullshit in teamgame, those guys really need some upkeep preventing 10+ cons zerg swarming

DP Guards are awesome, as long as you don't go full retarded taking a riflenade like a baseball

Shocks are quite useless out of Stalingrad, best breakfast for 222.

AssGuards of lend lease, more useless than shocks but still better than PG.

Assgren, very good as a mobile defence for their Grens friends that Cons won't charge your Grens mindlessly, sprint with good flanking can easily clear out support weapon and wipe out retreating squad

PG, useless piece of overnerfed shit, Pak / LMG Grens do their job much better so they are no longer needed, go back to Afrika, they miss it.

^^ operator bias.

Shreks always hit whenever the enemy uses them, they always miss when I use them.

The psychology of the game is such that to the Soviets, killing 2 models in a PG squad isn't enough because they still have 2 shreks to destroy your tanks. Meanwhile for the German, the death of half their squad is a significant problem since (obviously) they're a lot easier to kill and there's a good chance they'll drop a shrek. That's the problem with only playing one faction.

Get fast T2, up gunned 222.. Kite the cons all day and watch them bleed.

Panzer Elite lives on.

There is no quick counter early on for 222. It out ranges guards now, con flank is most reliable, but not easy against a switched on opponent.

An early ZiS loses field presence and isn't exactly sure to take out a 222.

Exactly this, man. PANZER ELITE. This is the sensation that Ostheer gives me. And in order to win, you must make bricks without straw, as it was in PE days. A versatile but soooo fragile faction. I admit I would like better a COH1 wehrmacht faction instead of Ostheer.

^^ operator bias.

Shreks always hit whenever the enemy uses them, they always miss when I use them.

The psychology of the game is such that to the Soviets, killing 2 models in a PG squad isn't enough because they still have 2 shreks to destroy your tanks. Meanwhile for the German, the death of half their squad is a significant problem since (obviously) they're a lot easier to kill and there's a good chance they'll drop a shrek. That's the problem with only playing one faction.

PG was never good in COH2 and even worst in this patch, only noobs can't handle them.

When playing Soviet, I am quite happy when I saw this, because it means how fast I can bleed his manpower, 45 per reinforcement, almost all my tanks can get 1-2 guys in the first shot, kite them then Ostheer get nothing but losing manpower, they was never able to contest shocks or even good positioned Cons. In this patch they need to get into Cons effective range before able to kill something, their nerfed armor means they die like flies.

When playing Ostheer, I only get them by calling 250 as a bonus and only use for Grens or flame Pio for the half track, or when I floated too much manpower, Screck is so ineffective that they can only finish off fausted armor or flanking half dead tanks or half dead squad. They are too expensive for this function, I prefer spending the muni to LMG, G43 or S mine.

Saying me playing only one faction is like, L2R, please.

Early tier stuff feels like PE sure, but you get a diverse range of somewhat tougher vehicles that the PE could only dream of after you hit T3 or T4. There is no direct comparison to CoH1 factions that makes complete sense. It's it's own thing.

Early tier stuff feels like PE sure, but you get a diverse range of somewhat tougher vehicles that the PE could only dream of after you hit T3 or T4. There is no direct comparison to CoH1 factions that makes complete sense. It's it's own thing.

Well frankly, Panzer Elite was a difficult to play faction but in the end you allways had that super call-in (two panthers and only for 1000 mp fuel zero) while the vet system allowed you to customize your army in the shape you wanted (better for attack, better for defence, balanced). G43s were G43s, and so on. So actually I consider that PE had some good advantages compared to Ostheer. All heavy cal-ins starting with Panthers and ending with Jagdpanther and Hummels were very efficient. Tbh I hope that Oberkommando West will resemble much more with the former wehrmacht.

Well frankly, Panzer Elite was a difficult to play faction but in the end you allways had that super call-in (two panthers and only for 1000 mp fuel zero) while the vet system allowed you to customize your army in the shape you wanted (better for attack, better for defence, balanced). G43s were G43s, and so on. So actually I consider that PE had some good advantages compared to Ostheer. All heavy cal-ins starting with Panthers and ending with Jagdpanther and Hummels were very efficient. Tbh I hope that Oberkommando West will resemble much more with the former wehrmacht.

PE is easy, as long as your micro is good. Top 100 can be achieve in 2 days.
It was my fav faction because of the high risk high reward nature.

PE is easy, as long as your micro is good. Top 100 can be achieve in 2 days.
It was my fav faction because of the high risk high reward nature.

Yes, I like your way of thinking, I like high risk rewards. It's true that I mostly played PE in 2v2s and 3v3s most of he time and not so much in 1v1. There were some agressive tactics with P4 rushes or AC + Marder + PzGrens combos. They lacked the mg crowd control power and snipers but they were fine. The IHT nerfing was so unfair and the mortar ht was shit compared to Ostheer's but still it was a nice faction to play with.

Dont even bother with pgs anymore. They are next to useless. Con spam is getring ridiculous nowadays

AC spam vs USA was not fun to play against. Then of course there was 'bullet proof' PE blob strat which was totall BS. Thank god coh2 has not devolved into this kind of play yet.

AC spam vs USA was not fun to play against. Then of course there was 'bullet proof' PE blob strat which was totall BS. Thank god coh2 has not devolved into this kind of play yet.

PE blob was nothing compared to british blobs with officers. Or to USA paras/rangers blobs. Sometimes more than 50% of the PE blob was easily killed by one single, no warning, straffing run. Damn' even wehrmacht grens blobs were better because of the resilient grens and they were paired best with Terror Doctrine because of zeal. Speaking of, I realy don't understand why COH2 doesn't have the "men recycling factories" (medical structures from COH1 that produced the "zombie" squads).
I agree that in COH2 the lethal infantry blobs are no more - and maybe it's a good thing - but that was one of the best chance of a middle-level player.

i woudn't say pgs are useless. Yes, they might be a bit squishy, but they deal the best medium range dps of all units beating even i believe DP gaurds at close mid range.


And from a realistic point of view "elite infantry" which are armed for example only with ppsh or MP44s shouldn't be too useful and should only work in specific situations.

There is a reason why everyone made more rifles than SMGs and for example every 12 man soviet squad had 1 dp. Rifles were not made en mass because they were cheap, a mosin nagant or a kar 98k was simply better than a ppsh or mp 40. Machine guns were another vital part of infantry combat.
Which is why in this game having either a maxim or HMG 42 or Dp gaurds or lmg grens is very very important.

Simply put it, a rifle is effective in all situations. Whether it be close range, medium range or long range.

Weapons such as ppsh or mp 44 are not all-round weapons.

The reason why shocks and pgs are not effective is because of the maps.

Pretty much all maps 1v1 except semois and stalingrad are open or nearly open fields. Which is kind of sad because there was so much urban fighting... The most epic battles except maybe for kursk were fought in urban areas......