Thoughts about new patch

The current state of the game is no better no worst that it always was. I feel bad about Relic balance team who probably is working hard to obtain a non-reachable objective. Maybe they should just test, test test, millions of times, not listening a word from what we're saying here because 99% of our posts are favoring a faction or another. So if, for instance, on this forum will be 100 german fanboys, like several times I was called, the game would be probably unbalanced from soviet faction point of view. On the other hand, if there will be 100 soviet fanboys the things are going to be the opposite.
I think the actual balance is the result of Relic reading and caring for all the majority of forum posters said. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it sure feels like this.
After a weekend of play, I can say that are some things I miss. I pretty liked the mechanics of the game with all that cover system and everything. It felt very tactical even if germans were a little OP. I don't know if they dropped this system in this patch, maybe they didn't but it certainly looks like they did. In all engagements cover seems to have a much weaker impact. So we are somehow backing to what it was before 25 march. I mean blobbing infantry and storming over fields without cover care is not a problem anymore. At least this is what I saw. So my conclusion is that the majority of people didn’t like this tactical approach and seems that now it is kind of dim in the game. Maybe they were right, because it made balance even more difficult to be achieved.
If I am correct, before 25 march patch, the meta game was generally like this: soviets pushing hard in startgame and having the advantage, while the late game was dominated by the germans because of the potent armor while the infantry was kind of weak in front of tanks. German infantry was weak also before soviet tanks.
After 25 march german faction was OP, having advantages in start, middle and end-game.
Now, things are rather weird. It feels like balanced in startgame, maybe more balanced than it ever was, but middle and end-game things are upside down. Soviet armor feels more powerfull now and I think it dominates the game. It’s sufficiently powerfull to take on german armor, while it can be produced in larger numbers than the german one. The diversity increased with the apparition of Sherman which is a well-rounded tank that can take down successfully a P4.
I don’t know, but german T3 doesn’t seem like a good option for games larger than 1v1. Of course, you can rely on T2 and wait for T4 (I disagree to people who say the paks are shit right now. No, they aren’t. They actually are very good and gain vet very fast). But then, the problem of building costs appears. By the time you’ll have a (thinner!) Panther on the field, you’ll be overwhelmed by shermans, t34s, etc., especially if there is a soviet industry doc nearby. It’s quite odd for me to see a fight between 3 T34s and 2 P4, T34s winning with 0 casualities. The main gun damage, engine damage is to often occurring from tank shots, especially if we talk about german armor.
German infantry it’s pretty shitty right now, and the champions are the Pzgrens. I mean, no crack infantry unit for germans, just cannon fodder (4 men squads with value 1 armor). On the other hand soviet have shocks, guards, partisans, irregulars, conscripts, penals. From middle game the german infantry is quite obsolete, one time I found myself in the situation to have not enough fuel but enough manpower and not knowing what to do with it (build what?!?).
There are some units now that in my opinion don’t deserve to be built. Stugs and pzgrens are among them.
Well it’s not like soviet faction it’s OP, but the german one feels a little shitty. I made a test (that I make after every patch), dunno, maybe it's a silly one but I will still tell you. I play against Expert CPU with both factions 2 or 3 games in order to figure it out about the current state of the game, before entering into multiplayer. What I can say now, is that a german expert CPU is easily owned compared to a soviet expert CPU.
Over all, the patch is not good, not bad, there are many changes and the game feels very different, it seems like we are back in the past when in order to win with germans you need to work your back harder than you do with soviets. Don’t necessarily have a problem with that, I like doing it and the satisfaction of victory now it’s higher because of that, but I think the nerfing of german faction should not go deeper than this.

1. Paragraphs
2. Cover system removed? You're nuts.
3. Stugs bad? no way.

I have played around 10 games after the patch and everything feels really great now. I have seen a lot of different strats now and it's always good. So I have to agree that it's not good nor bad.. It's great.

Without getting much details on German inf (not played with that enough) you can check Relic's twitch on launch day, there pqumsieh‎ clearly says that they have a way to compare stats of each units and pgrens were by far the greatest cost efficiency. So of course there was no other way than do some nerfs to them.

I think the actual balance is the result of Relic reading and caring for all the majority of forum posters said. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it sure feels like this.

First off, no. Theres a closed beta balance test. Forum whining from fanboys especially is ignored.

Two, stop whining about German infantry.

German infantry it’s pretty shitty right now, and the champions are the Pzgrens. I mean, no crack infantry unit for germans, just cannon fodder (4 men squads with value 1 armor). On the other hand soviet have shocks, guards, partisans, irregulars, conscripts, penals. From middle game the german infantry is quite obsolete, one time I found myself in the situation to have not enough fuel but enough manpower and not knowing what to do with it (build what?!?).

You are mentioning almost every doctrinal soviet unit. What about assault grens? What about g43d grens? Im sure g43 + lmg grens scale in the mid-late game more than a PPSH conscript. German infantry are just fine at the moment.

What I can say now, is that a german expert CPU is easily owned compared to a soviet expert CPU.

Wow, what a scientific study. If only expert CPU units didn't get health and damage multipliers, in addition to extra resources, maybe they would represent the meta!

Imho this patch is actually still German favored, early/mid/late-game. But only by a little bit. - This is geared towards the meta as a whole.(Specifically 1s and 2s)

-That being said I couldn't agree more at the balance being better than ever. Though I still think the new German commander is very effective, especially with the puma.(I don't say OP anymore because I'm tired of everyone listing everything as OP). I have other gripes as well but they're minor compared to what we had to deal with last patch. So my only major gripe is the puma.

I play larger games which, after this patch, feel better-balanced and more fun. I won one / lost one yesterday - the Germans still got their panthers out and bested us but because they played well, not because of their warp drive ability or bullet-proof panzer-grens.

All in all, patch is heading in right direction.

Of course my opinion could be wrong, let's get reasonable about that. After all, it's just an opinion but I really find it weird to say that germans are still OP.... and it's not a whining post, be objective about that guys. The problems I see are in more than 2v2 games in 1v1 I don't really see a problem.
Well of course they didn't remove the cover mechanics but I still think it has a much smaller impact now.

I really don't know why you think soviets are able to outproduce germans in tanks. The T34/76 costs only 15 fuel less then a P4. If fuel is anywhere near the same all that means is that each T34 comes on the feild just a little before. They wouldn't even have one more T34 then you have P4s til you built about 6 of at which point they would have a 7th.

Upon that their heavies are MORE expensive then the german heavies and the T34/85 call in cost more then a tiger.

And again, is just me, or now tanks are seriously exposed to main gun and engine damage from tank shots? The probability for that to occur seems quite high.

LOL, comp stomp warrior talking about balance.

Upon that their heavies are MORE expensive then the german heavies and the T34/85 call in cost more then a tiger.

double call-in is a bad idea from the beginning, a medium tank call-in costs more than a heavy tank is already a joke. But I don't think relic is going to change that since it's already gimped in early alpha

does anyone else have this feeling:

when they lose a game they don't think it's because of the imbalance, but rather the opponent being better than you, or you making some mistakes?

i get that feeling with this patch. it's good

Exactly buckers. I no longer rage at the retardedness of
OP doctrines/units, just RNG with mortars.

I play larger games which, after this patch, feel better-balanced and more fun. I won one / lost one yesterday - the Germans still got their panthers out and bested us but because they played well, not because of their warp drive ability or bullet-proof panzer-grens.

All in all, patch is heading in right direction.

I hear you.
Team games are much, much better then before. As russians I don't feel this overwhelming pressure to defeat the germans before they start getting panthers. Comebacks happen for both sides. Now momentum is much more important rather then who can get the biggest tanks the fastest.

-AssG are "dead weight" till they fix the 55mp reinforcement cost.
-Panther pen might or not be bugged. We will see. Nevertheless i think it´s good that they can´t be spammed but i dont know if they are on the right spot. Seeing how good they were on 2v2+ in combination with PG blob might make any comparison a bit unfair.

Apart from that:

Cover still maters. It´s even more important for PGs now with their reduce armor. Threat them as glass cannons.
Distance is your friend as germans.

For the moment the patch feels good, a better opinion might arise once people stop using the new commanders every game

+1 for the aforementioned positive feels for this patch. I've played around 20 2v2 matches this weekend, losing around 50% of them and having had fun regardless of the outcome. Last patch and the patch before that I just felt butthurt most of the time when having lost. My regular ally says the same.

+1 for the aforementioned positive feels for this patch. I've played around 20 2v2 matches this weekend, losing around 50% of them and having had fun regardless of the outcome. Last patch and the patch before that I just felt butthurt most of the time when having lost. My regular ally says the same.

Good for u. I didn't manage until now to win with germans in 2v2 but just 2 times (and one time because one guy quit). From 10.

Before it was the opposite. Maybe it's just us (me and my partner), not knowing "how to" with germans this patch. With soviets though, we don't have such problems. I hd 2 games in 2v2 yesterday with soviets and honestly I played like shit loosing 70% of my infantry but still being able to spam some shermans. We beat the crap out of them.

So see, I can't share your feeling about this patch. But again, maybe it's just us.

Imho this patch is actually still German favored, early/mid/late-game. But only by a little bit. - This is geared towards the meta as a whole.(Specifically 1s and 2s)

-That being said I couldn't agree more at the balance being better than ever. Though I still think the new German commander is very effective, especially with the puma.(I don't say OP anymore because I'm tired of everyone listing everything as OP). I have other gripes as well but they're minor compared to what we had to deal with last patch. So my only major gripe is the puma.

Completely agree with Von on this, I think the game is in its most balanced state yet apart from the over performing Pumas, removing the vet 1 Stun ability would balance it out better.

I dunno how you missed it but before this patch, pioneer and pgren blobs could indeed ignore cover and run across the field, get on top of soviet inf who stayed in cover but still got cut down by those vicious mp40s,mp44s.

Personally, I am loving this patch and am playing germans more than I ever did before because while they do have some great advantages over soviets, (and still are the stronger faction imo) they now have some downsides as well so winning with germans is a lot more satisfying this patch than in the last two patches and so is winning with soviets which is a sign that things are pretty well balanced now

edit:- shermans btw do seem a bit too good against both inf and armor and they accelerate really fast but ofc relic will probably only nerf them after the western front expansion comes out