I am curious to see what others think of pgrens after the last patch. I have played about 10 or 15 games since patch and am struggling to find a use for them. In ideal conditions - medium/short range at cover where the opponent just sits there - they are okay, but I always feel like I would take a G43 gren over them even in that case.
Shreks as soft counter to tanks still seems viable, but vanilla pgrens feel a bit too squishy for their cost. Even when they get up close they don't feel that impressive compared to other infantry and they seem incapable of charging except in rare cases where you have ample cover to zig zag through. That relegates them to just playing defense and deterring charges.
The combination of increased small arms lethality and tank AI general increases have me rotating these guys out of any build orders where I'm not desperate for AT and floating munis, but I'd be interested to see if others are having any success with them.
This is in 1v1 primarily. If it makes any difference top 100.
PGrens post 4/24 patch
25 Apr 2014, 21:48 PM
#1
Posts: 194
25 Apr 2014, 21:54 PM
#2
Posts: 760
I use pgrens as at support for my Paks and pumas while I save for t4. I personally never used pgrens as anti infantry because I find grens more than good enough.
25 Apr 2014, 21:55 PM
#3
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
They aren't meant to close in, they are mid range units. Use them in combination with an LMG42 and the opposing player will have a difficult time countering this tactic. Your LMG42 lays down heavy long range fire, your Pgrens punish a forward assault. We had a significant amount of data from the last update that indicated Pgrens were over performing by the largest margin relative to other infantry, this is without their Shrek upgrade. With it, they are one of then highest efficiency units in game.
PQ words.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
25 Apr 2014, 22:39 PM
#4
Posts: 589
isn't it counter intuitive? it seems like they should be used close range.
25 Apr 2014, 22:52 PM
#5
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
isn't it counter intuitive? it seems like they should be used close range.
Its counter intuitive only to someone who have no slightest idea what that rainbow on weapon profile chart means.
Then they have to learn hard way.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
25 Apr 2014, 23:54 PM
#6
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
With Prgens the safe distance is 15m. At this point they do double the damage of grens whilst at a safe distance from enemy SMG fire.
I would not use them in front of my grens because then they are too vulnerable to enemy focus-fire. Because they are closer, they also take more damage. If, in a decent engagement, you have them in front of your grens, they will be close to numerous enemy squads and they will thus die quickly.
But, if you use the squad to flank during this engagement, they will only be close to one enemy squad. Even if the enemy then uses focus fire on your Pgrens, they will go down a lot slower because they are only close to 1 enemy squad, rather than all of them.
I would not use them in front of my grens because then they are too vulnerable to enemy focus-fire. Because they are closer, they also take more damage. If, in a decent engagement, you have them in front of your grens, they will be close to numerous enemy squads and they will thus die quickly.
But, if you use the squad to flank during this engagement, they will only be close to one enemy squad. Even if the enemy then uses focus fire on your Pgrens, they will go down a lot slower because they are only close to 1 enemy squad, rather than all of them.
26 Apr 2014, 00:08 AM
#7
Posts: 3293
nm aerohawk explained what i ws going to say.
basicalyl you can't just say this unit does the most damage here becuase your facing other usnits compare to the other guns on the graph.
basicalyl you can't just say this unit does the most damage here becuase your facing other usnits compare to the other guns on the graph.
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26 Apr 2014, 01:01 AM
#8
Posts: 589
Its counter intuitive only to someone who have no slightest idea what that rainbow on weapon profile chart means.
Then they have to learn hard way.
I mean why should a full auto weapon not do high damage at close range. What does this have to do with a chart?
26 Apr 2014, 01:03 AM
#9
10 
Posts: 871
I mean why should a full auto weapon not do high damage at close range. What does this have to do with a chart?
Because of balance.
26 Apr 2014, 01:35 AM
#10
Posts: 440
So which German squads are supposed to excel in close quarters? Nerfed Pios? Nerfed AGs that are insane to reinforce and drop like flies?
26 Apr 2014, 01:42 AM
#11
Posts: 471
Ass Grens could definitely use a little love right now. They lose to penals at close range...
26 Apr 2014, 01:49 AM
#12
Posts: 381
So which German squads are supposed to excel in close quarters? Nerfed Pios? Nerfed AGs that are insane to reinforce and drop like flies?
+1 I think they overnerfed a bit.
26 Apr 2014, 02:04 AM
#13
10 Posts: 871
So which German squads are supposed to excel in close quarters? Nerfed Pios? Nerfed AGs that are insane to reinforce and drop like flies?
So which Soviet squads are supposed to excel at long range? You could say Guards, they are decent at range if upgraded but I wouldn't say they excel. Why do Germans have to have a unit that excels in close quarters?
Posts: 267 | Subs: 8
Check the DPS charts, Pgrens still have the second highest close range damage output in game. But again, they are most powerful at mid range as this is the range where their advantage is greatest relative to other weapons.
26 Apr 2014, 02:26 AM
#15
Posts: 194
Check the DPS charts, Pgrens still have the second highest close range damage output in game. But again, they are most powerful at mid range as this is the range where their advantage is greatest relative to other weapons.
Thanks for the response.
I did not intend for this to be an Ostheer vs Soviet discussion, rather just focus on PGs in particular. Right now for their price point they seem a bit squishy. Their initial cost and reinforce cost tends to make me prefer regular grenadiers who are solid at all ranges and can be further specialized into long range (LMG) or medium/close range (G43). The 1.2 armor PGrens had before this patch felt right to me because it made them just a hair more resilient which matched their higher cost, imo. Their risk/reward ratio seems out of balance, but only slightly.
26 Apr 2014, 02:28 AM
#16
7 Posts: 1664
So which German squads are supposed to excel in close quarters? Nerfed Pios? Nerfed AGs that are insane to reinforce and drop like flies?
Assgren reinforce bug aside, assgrens and pios are both still quite potent when you make sure to get them very close without taking damage and hitting the "stop" key at the appropriate range to get that dps going.
26 Apr 2014, 05:08 AM
#17
Posts: 1702
mid range unit. It's called an assault rifle. Not a submachine gun.
26 Apr 2014, 06:22 AM
#18
Posts: 381
I don't have a problem with the stg's damage. Its the fact that pgrens die faster than grens. It kinda sucks because Soviets have no good long range infantry and Germans no longer have close quarters assault troops. o wait, there will be insanely op stormtroopers for okw call in. I guess Germans will have to wait for the commander.
26 Apr 2014, 07:35 AM
#19
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
Assgren reinforce bug aside, assgrens and pios are both still quite potent when you make sure to get them very close without taking damage and hitting the "stop" key at the appropriate range to get that dps going.
While pios can definitely be used after you get a squad pinned, to be honest they're not really any more potent than grens at short so all you're left as an advantage is the 40mp.
I don't particularly like the PG nerf. I thought the only problem with PGs last patch was that shreks were too good as AT. That hasn't changed, but now PGs notably worse as an anti-inf unit. I'm not gonna say they're useless, but it feels like the only reason to have one instead of a gren squad if you're not getting shreks is to do squad wipe attempts on retreating units.
26 Apr 2014, 08:48 AM
#20
Posts: 105
PGs were too good at everything last patch. The Soviets had no infantry that could take them 1v1 at any range.
PGs now are much better than grens at short/medium range with a nuclear grenade to boot and the option to get AT if they need it. They are just fine.
PGs now are much better than grens at short/medium range with a nuclear grenade to boot and the option to get AT if they need it. They are just fine.
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