Hard Cap Heavies

VCOH had hardcaps on heavies
DOW2 had hardcaps on super heavies

I know alot of people are against it (because they think it limits strategic options), but it really does help solve a number of balance issues. Hardcaps would be for call-ins only. I would be open to suggesting a hard cap of two for Panthers/SU85 but I doubt that would take so lets just forget it.


Hardcap of 1: Elephant, ISU152, Tiger, IS2

In both, DoW2 and vcoh heavies were much, much more resilient and had more impact on the game then here.

Not to mention heavy impact will probably fall next patch and we have yet to actually have any super heavies yet.

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I mean it takes forever to get multiple heavies to begin with. I was sad faced in vcoh when they made tiger/pershing limit to 1

No, just add teching requirements. Zero tech tanks need to be removed.

In general I don't think its needed and definitely not needed for is2 and tiger.

No, just add teching requirements. Zero tech tanks need to be removed.

Umm, this is exactly why they are called call-in tanks.
They arrive much later already then you could have the armor if you've tiered.

Only thing currently being wrong is soviet tier armor being so bad that there is literally no reason to pay that 140 fuel+whatever more you need to get T34 or SU. A problem ost doesn't have because all of their armor, doctrinal and stock is performing well.

Heavy call-ins should be hardcapped to prevent spammint. It would make teching more important and the game wouldn't be relied on call-in commanders (take Shock Rifle or Tiger commanders as examples) ---> better combined arms, less whining about paid commanders.

Also IMO heavy call-ins should not replace your non-doctrinal units, they are only supplement.

Heavy call-ins should be hardcapped to prevent spammint. It would make teching more important and the game wouldn't be relied on call-in commanders (take Shock Rifle or Tiger commanders as examples).

Soviet call ins are infinitely better than the stock tin cans, and somehow a mainline medium tank is doctrinal. Nothing can be said until the upcoming armor patch.

Isn't the 25 population hard enough? I couldn't call in a second Tiger without killing my own AT gun or infantry. Relic should make Heavy tanks more expensive on CP, and fuel. Tigers in CoH2 is not a rare luxury. It's more like you call it once, get pop capped, float resources, dead and call in another one. The Tiger itself is a bit under performing than what it's supposed to be two Su85s can take it out easily and one unlucky mine, at nade or ram will make it vulnerable to even one su85.

Instead of it being a good heavy tank it's too expendable and too weak. Relic needs to make it perform better and make it more expensive.

The Tiger itself is a bit under performing than what it's supposed to be two Su85s can take it out easily and one unlucky mine, at nade or ram will make it vulnerable to even one su85.

The tiger underperforms? And your reasoning is that it's because it loses to tank-destroyers? Two SU85s are more expensive than a tiger, and are dedicated tank destroyers. I would be a bit silly to have a tank destroyer that loses cost for cost against a all-purpose main battle tank in a straight up fight.

Here is a list of units that counter a tiger: SU-85 and Zis3 guns.
That's it, all other soviet units lose to tigers cost for cost.

Also, with a mine/pfaust, a IS-2 also loses to a single STUGIII or panther. This does not mean that the IS-2 underperforms. It means that mines/ATnades/Pfaust/etc do their job.

Instead of it being a good heavy tank it's too expendable and too weak. Relic needs to make it perform better and make it more expensive.

I would rather not have a unit that is good regardless of circumstances. If you want to counter tank destroyers, get a elephant, panther, or panzerschreks. For all else there is the tiger.

Anyway you look at it this teching structure is nutty. I know they took into account the future buffs to Soviet T3 that are coming in making the fuel cost for a single T34 more than a Tiger call-in.

It's just all so FUBAR, I don't know how they can possibly fix it besides trying to extend the mid-game yet again, which should play in Ostheer's favor even if they buff conscripts.

They were closest to making this a decent game with the last patch, fighting off conscript hordes and T34 spam was the price you paid for playing a technically superior Ostheer army.

What they're doing now...is altering the game in such a way that it will probably simply frustrate more people when this patch hits. I am sick of relearning this game's mechanics and viable teching/call-in strats with every single patch.

Would you like to go on like that? Turn the game characteristics on its head with every patch... I already have to convince with good words my game buddy to start again playing CoH2 with the next patch...

It's incompetent game design, pure and simple. With changes this large and this frequent over a less than year period, it's clear there are no guiding principles, no ethos, and no vision of what a highly skilled match of COH2 is supposed to look like.

Balance concerns are easily addressed. Balance is a technical thing, you can do it on spreadsheets really. Having a creative vision that you seek, above all else, to make real is another. I see no evidence of vision in this game anymore. If there was one, we would be proceeding in small balance patches, not these huge lurches that totally alter the characteristics of the armies every few months.

More than anything else, the designers have to sit down and really think about how they want the game to look, what they want the end-state to be. Don't write down things in terms of DPS and ranges, write paragraphs about how you want it to feel, how you want it to play, what you want players to be challenged by when playing both factions.

Once you have that all the spreadsheet balance crap will fall into place, maybe not instantaneously, but slowly and surely.

I can't really say I agree sluzbenik.

From the release of the game a lot of people complained that small arms fire was too low and cover was meaningless. The second big complaint was the rush to vehicles and the short early/mid game. I'd say that Relic is making great progress in solving these issues. They themselves have recognized the new problems that have arisen in the early game so we will likely see changes to that stage of the game in the next patch along with the vehicle changes.

My only concern is at the moment is with soviet T3 and T4. I simply can't agree with Relics design philosophy that soviets can build one UND OHNLY ONE of their late-game tiers. It would be less bad if both tiers had AI and AT vehicles, but that the moment the only way to get that mix is by going SU-85+KV-8 call in or just skipping tech and spamming T34/85s.