New patch, KV-8 still OP

I would seriously quit. I dont often use the KV-8, as I use the speedy quadmount halftrack to do its job for me. But when AT piles up and the german infantry are numerous, i use it. Nerfing the KV-8? It indeed has plenty of weaknesses, such as its engine which will make the tank a massive target if it gets fausted/MINED.It also has TERRIBLE AT. I mainly will quit because it means relic has listened to the German players for nerfing a unit that isnt too much of a problem, meaning it has prioritized a unit adjustment for GERMANS when Soviets had a few issues with armor in terms of AT for some time now. The KV-8 can be ADJUSTED. All armor should be adjusted in the upcoming armor patch. But it has no need to be nerfed. That would be too much, and a blow to Soviet players' morale, destroying the glory of playing Russians altogether.

Sounds like you just use the KV-8 as a crutch and you're just mad they might make it fair somehow.

relax guys, they said the would look into tanks in next patch.

yup

Sounds like you just use the KV-8 as a crutch and you're just mad they might make it fair somehow.

It is just weird seeing German players go OPOPOPOPOPOPOP. I thought only Russian players complained like that... and it is already fair. I do not understand how it can be a problem anyways. In every battle i see it, it gets demolished on its first assault. It cannot retreat... ill play against anyone who thinks they can use it in an op way. If i lose, it wont be from the KV-8. No, because it will already be dead.

Its probably going to get some changes in the armor patch anyways.

It gets demolished because the players are bad... The KV-8 had 240 armour, a 55% chance for a Panzer IV shot to bounce, or a 36% chance for a Tiger shot to bounce. It has 960 health, that's 6 Ostheer tank shots. That's extremely tanky for a vehicle that whipes out Infantry faster than anything else in the game, and can chase them down if they retreat.

The reason you usually see the KV-8 lost is because people get their new KV-8 and send in on a suicide attack knowing they'll wipe half Ostheer's army in exchange for their one tank.

But that never happens because i counter a heavy, costly dedicated Anti infantry tank with units that it cannot harm? And KV-8 isnt a good way to kill retreating units. Quadmount halftrack is much faster, and on the german side, i sometimes get the opportunity to get a mechanized assault group to hunt down retreating squads before they reach their base. And all of it in the early game, where squad wiping matters the most. Hell, IS-2 does a great job of wiping nearly dead retreating squads.

On the topic of many people not using FHT for obvious reasons, i hope its old nerf gets removed. It just got an armor reduction, which is completely stupid since infantry usually kills the gunner of it stock and now it is even less useful as FHT. Cant FHT be upgraded only after you tech or something? Most people complained it came out early before AT, and that problem is about solved. AT is always present when you get FHT. So i wont mind if that becomes useful and the damage of the KV-8 is decreased by a fourth/ a third. But not too much as to make it an expensive hunk of crap...

So what I understand from your posts is this:

- For soviets it's ok to have a unit that can be used like a no-brainer, just walking around and killing everything. Before this patch so you could do with ppsh cons waves and shock troops (thank Good now you need to THINK before you do that). If germans would have something like that, only then that unit would be OP.
- Nice suggestion Von Ivan related to that teller mine, but, I'm afraid I must partially disagree. You can't just build a teller mine next to your pak and pray to God and saints that KV 8 will run into it and expect this to be THE solution. This doesn't mean it's not a good idea to build mines especially on roades or crossroads, but depending on how battle goes, you could choose to do that or not. For instance, I prefer spending my amo on S-mines more than on tellers. Further, your paks are not designed to stay and sleep in one place on the map with a teller mine next to them. You move them, as the situation requires. Oh, you maybe suggest to build that teller mine at a first sign of KV-8. That would work if building time would be one second.
What I want to underline here is that unless you have a panther, any other combination has a big chance to fail. In this replay, Sage had 2 paks and they did nothing against KV-8. To effectively dispose of it, best way is to have something as mobile as the KV with high armor penetration value. But such a thing allways come after a while KV-8 hit the field and roasted your army.
- I like that people who complains about how OP is the German armor, allways ignore it's production costs. I mean, it's logical that something more expensive is better... Loosing a german tank is more punnishing than loosing a soviet tank, I think it's obvious. So theoretically you have to worrk harder in order not to loose it.
Are the german tanks OP? Wanna fix them? Perfect. Nerf armor, nerf armor penetration, nerf health. But then, you should of course seriously lower the production costs. I mean, you can't just nerf, nerf, nerf, and let the same price. I think we could agree on this.
- Someone said here that if I can't kill a KV-8 with a single P4 I should probably L2P. I wanna know, how manny of you here succeeded to kill a KV-8 with a single P4 BEFORE the KV-8 frying almost half of your army? Thing is not that I can't kill it, I can't - and nobody can with a single P4 - to kill it in time.
- Another one said Brumbar is OP because it's doing the same thing to soviet infantry. Please read point 3. More than this, KV-8 is a call-in, it doesn't need phases or buildings. So I don't think we can compare the two units.

I like to conclude by saying that I understand there should be divergent opinions on these forums, but we should keep talking in a civilized way. Thank you.

i believe even if it is technically OP there are definitly ways to deal with it and make its effects rather negligible. You can't just lol charge unless the enemy is completely unpreparied for it, In which case they kind of deserve it.

...because T34/85s were the strat du jour.

I'm sure it will require some closer look but you don't seem to accept the fact that it's not game breaker. It's only for few commanders.

It's not like some basic German unit which is right now kinda.. good.

But OP wouldn't know anything about that because based on your player card, you know. Not that much Soviet activity.

A 135 fuel tank, that can't even kill other tanks, is OP?

If you have an issue with the KV8, I can't imagine how the rest of your game is going. Get a stug or something, its almost half the cost.

KV8 has high speed?? When did that happen??!1

A 135 fuel tank, that can't even kill other tanks, is OP?

If you have an issue with the KV8, I can't imagine how the rest of your game is going. Get a stug or something, its almost half the cost.

Well, see, not everybody here it's place 1 or 2 in leaderboards so a KV-8 would melt just meeting your nickname, so let us common mortals to debate on this topic if you don't mind.

Well, see, not everybody here it's place 1 or 2 in leaderboards so a KV-8 would melt just meeting your nickname, so let us common mortals to debate on this topic if you don't mind.

Will it be a huge mistake on my part if I say that you are able to get P4 before 20th minute of the game to hardcounter K8?

So what I understand from your posts is this:

- For soviets it's ok to have a unit that can be used like a no-brainer, just walking around and killing everything. Before this patch so you could do with ppsh cons waves and shock troops (thank Good now you need to THINK before you do that). If germans would have something like that, only then that unit would be OP.
- Nice suggestion Von Ivan related to that teller mine, but, I'm afraid I must partially disagree. You can't just build a teller mine next to your pak and pray to God and saints that KV 8 will run into it and expect this to be THE solution. This doesn't mean it's not a good idea to build mines especially on roades or crossroads, but depending on how battle goes, you could choose to do that or not. For instance, I prefer spending my amo on S-mines more than on tellers. Further, your paks are not designed to stay and sleep in one place on the map with a teller mine next to them. You move them, as the situation requires. Oh, you maybe suggest to build that teller mine at a first sign of KV-8. That would work if building time would be one second.
What I want to underline here is that unless you have a panther, any other combination has a big chance to fail. In this replay, Sage had 2 paks and they did nothing against KV-8. To effectively dispose of it, best way is to have something as mobile as the KV with high armor penetration value. But such a thing allways come after a while KV-8 hit the field and roasted your army.
- I like that people who complains about how OP is the German armor, allways ignore it's production costs. I mean, it's logical that something more expensive is better... Loosing a german tank is more punnishing than loosing a soviet tank, I think it's obvious. So theoretically you have to worrk harder in order not to loose it.
Are the german tanks OP? Wanna fix them? Perfect. Nerf armor, nerf armor penetration, nerf health. But then, you should of course seriously lower the production costs. I mean, you can't just nerf, nerf, nerf, and let the same price. I think we could agree on this.
- Someone said here that if I can't kill a KV-8 with a single P4 I should probably L2P. I wanna know, how manny of you here succeeded to kill a KV-8 with a single P4 BEFORE the KV-8 frying almost half of your army? Thing is not that I can't kill it, I can't - and nobody can with a single P4 - to kill it in time.
- Another one said Brumbar is OP because it's doing the same thing to soviet infantry. Please read point 3. More than this, KV-8 is a call-in, it doesn't need phases or buildings. So I don't think we can compare the two units.

I like to conclude by saying that I understand there should be divergent opinions on these forums, but we should keep talking in a civilized way. Thank you.

The KV-8 is a doctrinal unit that is used to counter the strat du jour ^tm (great term btw!!!)blobbing and abusing G43 Grens and LMG42. The german player can counter it without even choosing a doctrine so please don't stop QQ and adapt to the new patch!

i believe even if it is technically OP there are definitly ways to deal with it and make its effects rather negligible. You can't just lol charge unless the enemy is completely unpreparied for it, In which case they kind of deserve it.

+1

If you are going to rely on Shrecks n Paks for AT without mines during the stage you expect to see a KV8, you are going to have a bad time.

Wait, last time I kill a KV8 with two 222

and the ruskie commander decided to abandon the KV8, then



I sent that vet 2 KV8 back to the ruskie base

If you have T3 you can already counter the KV-8. A StuG/Pz IV + PaK with infantry to support them is already a really good combo. The PaK gets vet 1 really quick when shooting at the KV-8 so then you can just stun it to get some time to take a quick shot with schrecks while bringing your tank in. If your opponent has made a KV-8 while seeing that you have T3 he has made a mistake already.

Try the KV-8 baserush yourself and see how your opponent counters that. I think you will be amazed. Also if he gets a KV-8 it usually means he won't be getting an IS-2 anytime soon -> even more time for you to rule the map with your armor.

Will it be a huge mistake on my part if I say that you are able to get P4 before 20th minute of the game to hardcounter K8?

A small one, but still mistake . Due to its heavy armor KV-8 cannot be effectively countered by a single P4. Effective counter = kill it before reaching the point to loose too much territory or infantry. I'd rather agree with what Tnrg said but I saw KV8 usually step in when you have no tools to kill it or force it back quickly enough. I mean, what did I obtain if I forced it back or killed it after loosing half of army?! It attacks the most sensible thing: infantry. Infantry that cap territory.
If I would have a resilient infantry as soviet had before 25 march patch, I wouldn't worry to much about a panther or two. At the end of the day, roughly speaking, having constantly more territory than your opponent wins you a game, it's a VP game. If, in the middle of a game I storm into your infantry and kill half of them, you will have hard time keeping pace with my capping power.
This unit affects balance at a strategic - not tactical! - level.

Name one german unit that can eat whole squads as effectively as KV-8 does, sometimes without even giving a retreat chance. Brumbar, you'll probably say. Then, I would tell you 2 things: 1. compare production prices; 2. KV-8 is more effective at squad wiping than Brumbar.

In the end, if what I say seems so senseless for you, know I have been playing vCoh for 6-7 years and Coh2 from its beginning, so I think I should know what I'm talking about.

A small one, but still mistake . Due to its heavy armor KV-8 cannot be effectively countered by a single P4. Effective counter = kill it before reaching the point to loose too much territory or infantry. I'd rather agree with what Tnrg said but I saw KV8 usually step in when you have no tools to kill it or force it back quickly enough. I mean, what did I obtain if I forced it back or killed it after loosing half of army?! It attacks the most sensible thing: infantry. Infantry that cap territory.
If I would have a resilient infantry as soviet had before 25 march patch, I wouldn't worry to much about a panther or two. At the end of the day, roughly speaking, having constantly more territory than your opponent wins you a game, it's a VP game. If, in the middle of a game I storm into your infantry and kill half of them, you will have hard time keeping pace with my capping power.
This unit affects balance at a strategic - not tactical! - level.

Name one german unit that can eat whole squads as effectively as KV-8 does, sometimes without even giving a retreat chance. Brumbar, you'll probably say. Then, I would tell you 2 things: 1. compare production prices; 2. KV-8 is more effective at squad wiping than Brumbar.

In the end, if what I say seems so senseless for you, know I have been playing vCoh for 6-7 years and Coh2 from its beginning, so I think I should know what I'm talking about.

A KV-8 backs off if it goes into combat with a PIV. The soviet knows the kv-8 cannot scratch it, and he will try to drive it away as fast as possible. Kv-8's typically stay away from heavy At buildups that include armor. Killing the tank isnt the only way to get rid of it, which many people seem to not know. Actually play soviets for once. You'll find they arent the trump all tread everywhere kind of tank that you think it is. I find it really funny that you do not know your enemy because you have never been in his shoes. That is why you do not know what you are talking about, and that is why no one will take you seriously. A one sided argument all about the Germans. You know, if the Soviets actually went up against a good german player, he would actually need brains to keep it alive and kill for its worth.

A KV-8 backs off if it goes into combat with a PIV. The soviet knows the kv-8 cannot scratch it, and he will try to drive it away as fast as possible. Kv-8's typically stay away from heavy At buildups that include armor. Killing the tank isnt the only way to get rid of it, which many people seem to not know. Actually play soviets for once. You'll find they arent the trump all tread everywhere kind of tank that you think it is. I find it really funny that you do not know your enemy because you have never been in his shoes. That is why you do not know what you are talking about, and that is why no one will take you seriously. A one sided argument all about the Germans. You know, if the Soviets actually went up against a good german player, he would actually need brains to keep it alive and kill for its worth.

Nothing concrete, just general assertions. I won't even bother to answer that, sorry.