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A slightly less random random number generator

24 Jan 2013, 00:54 AM
#1
avatar of CrackBarbie

Posts: 182

A Slightly Less Random Random Number Generator

Let me preface this by saying that I am aware that coh wouldn't be the awesome and exciting game that it is if it weren't for the random number generator [RNG]. Let it also be clear that I definitely don't want to see it omitted, as it's what gives coh its charm and makes it both cinematic and realistic in comparison to a classic RTS, i.e. SC2. However, I'd like to see the RNG implemented into coh2 in a manner that is both random and yet still very predictable. Let me state what I mean with an example: A Sherman with 5% health gets fired upon by a pak at maximum range, the possible outcomes are: destruction, engine damage, engine totaling, broken treads or destroyed gun. Whilst all these criticals [crits] aren't completely random in that they only happen at very low health, the outcome is very deciding, since a destroyed engine or broken threads will result in a lost Sherman, whereas a broken gun or damaged engine will allow the Sherman to narrowly escape harms way. The loss of a 420mp and 90 fuel investment is very likely to cost you dearly, in which case you shouldn't be punished for being unlucky but rather for making a strategical mistake. My proposal as a possible cure is to implement vehicle crits in a way that causes them to occur based on where the tank was hit. For example, rear shots should cause engine crits, frontal shots main gun crits, and side shots thread crits. The probability of receiving the respective crit should then be determined by vehicle health, range and the RNG. Also, terminal crits, such as destroyed engine, shouldn't be allowed to be overlapped by others. How annoying is it to see a sherman get a damaged engine, a destroyed engine, and destroyed threads all at 5% health?

Likewise, infantry should also take damage in a predictable way. I'm pretty sure coh1 already has a system implemented where infantry at longer range is more likely to take heavy damage than die, which is rather intuitive since long range shots are less likely to hit lethal targets. Despite this I still think it's implementation could be more concrete than it is in coh1. The fact that it's still not obvious to me whether long range shots are less likely to be lethal speaks for itself (don't quote this to troll me :P).

In conclusion, I'd like to state that I by no means want the RNG to be scraped, and luckily it does seem that Relic agrees with me on that. Furthermore, the examples I provided serve purely to explain my notion. They are very rudimentary in design and the RNG changes shouldn't be limited to them. All-in-all, I'd like to see the RNG become a more clearly-cut element of coh2, as it would allow the game to become fairer and thereby help lay a more solid foundation for coh2's prospect of becoming a proper e-sport.
24 Jan 2013, 01:17 AM
#2
avatar of Budwise
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24 Jan 2013, 01:37 AM
#3
avatar of Kolaris

Posts: 308 | Subs: 1

That tank crit system is already in vCoH. Probably just a mix of not noticing it and it not being implemented in a very intuitive way.

There's a table for rear criticals and a table for frontal criticals. Criticals depend on the health of the vehicle, and they can be weighted against each other (i.e. 70% destroy engine 30% destroy vehicle).

I don't know what more would be needed. The only problem is you run into suspect values, like how many tank criticals are weighted so its harder to kill it when hitting it from the rear.
24 Jan 2013, 01:52 AM
#4
avatar of CrackBarbie

Posts: 182

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jan 2013, 01:37 AMKolaris
That tank crit system is already in vCoH. Probably just a mix of not noticing it and it not being implemented in a very intuitive way.

There's a table for rear criticals and a table for frontal criticals. Criticals depend on the health of the vehicle, and they can be weighted against each other (i.e. 70% destroy engine 30% destroy vehicle).

I don't know what more would be needed. The only problem is you run into suspect values, like how many tank criticals are weighted so its harder to kill it when hitting it from the rear.

Interesting, well I suppose in that case probability should only determine whether a crit occurs and not the type of crit itself. For example, rear hits should exclusively net damaged or destroyed engines.

To add to the OP, I also think that tanks and infantry should be more defined in their role. I'd like Relic to steer clear from any 50% frontal peneration values against low health tanks, such as shermans versus stugs, since it makes for far too unpredictable skirmishing.
24 Jan 2013, 08:15 AM
#5
avatar of SanchezIR

Posts: 18

Good ideas.

Regarding vehicle combat - one thing that could be added, on top of criticals, is obligatory damage.
Like, the obligatory damage could be 10% of average damage for this kind of gun.
This means if (on average) a pak shot takes 20% T34's health per hit, a crit would take 2%.
Ofc the amount could be tweaked.

24 Jan 2013, 12:19 PM
#6
avatar of pathfindergold

Posts: 82

I think that vehicle crits should be done in a bell curve fashion such that 50% of the time a "normal" crit should happen, such as engine damage. Then 1 standard deviation in either direction, there's a 15.9% chance of a gun being destroyed (arguably a "good" crit to get) or a 15.9% chance of the engine being destroyed (arguable a worse crit to get.) Then 1 last standard deviation in either direction, there's a 2.3% chance of getting... idk, gunner killed? something really good that basically will let the vehicle survive one more shot, or there's a 2.3% chance of getting immobilization, or it just skips the crits and the vehicle just outright dies.

This could be tweaked by changing the mean % in either direction, either increasing the odds of a good thing happening or of a bad thing happening depending on what would balance the game more.
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