What the .... is up with the germans ?

I have had at least a dozen engagements where grens and conscripts meet at mid range with full health and yellow cover on both sides. I have seen grens win, and I have seen conscripts win. Grens win more often because their DPS goes down slower as the engagement goes on, because conscripts lose a model first. This is fair because having 4 men in a squad is a disadvantage vs snipers and anything that does splash damage.

Man is it funny reading about how to play Soviets in the new patch from people who literally do not play Soviets.


It isn't even deniable right now. Grenadiers are winning almost every engagement. Rifle nades are doing way too much damage. Stack on LMGs + G43s and the problem gets worse.

Conscripts are nearly useless in anything except utility of AT nades, forcing builds with penals + guards/shocks.

I adapted immediately to the changes of the new weapon profiles (thanks vCoH), and honestly it is a gigantic step in the right direction, but it is completely obvious that the early game balance needs equally gigantic fixing from such drastic changes. People can joke about the current effectiveness of G43 Grens ----> Tiger Ace, but it is actually a viable strat at the moment.

Like Modeling/Military interest companies, Relic is certainly aware, but will never admit that they also service a german supersoldier fanboy club with their product.

These players, often right wing types, are the ones that identify with the Wehr and/or SS and like to fantasize that they are nazi super soldiers. Either that or they are in love with the panzers.

A few of them are so infatuated with the perceived 'coolness' of the Wehr/SS that they often are also apologists for war crimes. The idea of a 'clean German Army, but the rest were scum' is a clear sell for them.

The Soviets are seen as totally inferior, low quality, uncool, 'commi scum' and 'only won' through "masses".

+1 lol

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197970339613

Like Modeling/Military interest companies, Relic is certainly aware, but will never admit that they also service a german supersoldier fanboy club with their product.

These players, often right wing types, are the ones that identify with the Wehr and/or SS and like to fantasize that they are nazi super soldiers. Either that or they are in love with the panzers.

A few of them are so infatuated with the perceived 'coolness' of the Wehr/SS that they often are also apologists for war crimes. The idea of a 'clean German Army, but the rest were scum' is a clear sell for them.

The Soviets are seen as totally inferior, low quality, uncool, 'commi scum' and 'only won' through "masses".

+10000000
fanboys need to stop contributing to the balance discuession

Absolutely correct coh2player.

Let us explore the facts of this patch.

Panzergrenadiere cost 280 manpower.

What the heck are you smocking?!?!

I'm not entirely sure you read the whole thread. There is also no need to scream in capslock like an immature child. I'm gonna explain you the problem once again.

You made an example with Panzergrenadiers. No one needs them nowadays, because you can give LMG or G43 to your Grens. Once they have them, they gain veterancy 3 in no time. Then you almost need KV - 8 everytime otherwhise you nearly can't beat them because sov infantry doesn't have such survivability. When Cons try to get close, they lose. If they stay on range, they will also lose. Additionally, they can clear a Maxim with a single rifle nade. And this summed up isn't really something I'd call balance. Feel free to discuss!

Frickadelle, you've been drinking or what? What game are we playing? I'm playing COH2, are you sure you play the same game? Because if so, I really can't explain how me and other players around here have no problem at all while playing soviets in the new patch. Clearing Maxim with a single rifle nade? I really, really want a replay with that maybe I'll learn something new. Oh, except situations where your maxim is in the middle of a cement road firing at german grenadiers who are in green cover. You would like grenadiers being beaten even in this position, aren't you? Well for your info, even a con squad can beat a heavy mg42 if they are close enough and use cover while MG42 doesn't. Attack move and win? Well, then maybe we should all go and play SC2. I won with soviets several times after 25 march patch and used simple tactics like this one: closing with cons from multiple directions, using cover. Cover, remember? Heavy mgs still drop like flies to molotovs. I used combined penal troops with cons. Mines. Heavy mortars. T4 or call-ins. By the time enemy had a panther and a brumbar, I had 2 SU-85s. And guess what? Owned him.
The only thing different now is that soviet faction players need to exit from their"spam and win" boots and play as germans played before. Combining more, using cover, etc. Not just storming mindlessly into your opponent. The new patch punishes such behaviours and you know what? I am happy it does.

why should soviets neeed to use more micro when germans can plant their grens in heavy cover and win engagements

that's the only argument i'd need
even if conscripts did win close up, it's still a massive imba.

Obviously, you didn't play germans before this 25 march patch. Because if you did, you would have asked yourself the same question while playing with germans: why oh why do I need godlike micro to win with germans while with soviets it's so easy? 25 march patch just ended soviet "
easy mode". It's all that it did.

Like Modeling/Military interest companies, Relic is certainly aware, but will never admit that they also service a german supersoldier fanboy club with their product.

These players, often right wing types, are the ones that identify with the Wehr and/or SS and like to fantasize that they are nazi super soldiers. Either that or they are in love with the panzers.

A few of them are so infatuated with the perceived 'coolness' of the Wehr/SS that they often are also apologists for war crimes. The idea of a 'clean German Army, but the rest were scum' is a clear sell for them.

The Soviets are seen as totally inferior, low quality, uncool, 'commi scum' and 'only won' through "masses".

1. Ummm... news flash for u: your avatar is wearing a german officer uniform. So you are a german fanboy and an SS fan. Does this sound silly to you? I bet it does. Well, to me too. A nickname is a nickname, no more. Nobody approved war crimes and no one is the "fan" os such things. In fact war is a crime, and thank God we are just playing a game instead leaving the real thing.
2. Relic NEVER sustained german faction. Not in this game, not even in vCOH. Americans were "easy mode" while PE was like walking through hell and back. Not even wehrmacht army was OP in vCOH, not by far. Soviet faction was "easy mode" untill now. Now, Relic wanted some balance because everybody was asking for it. But now, exclusive soviet players are upset. They don't want to change tactics. They don't want a tactical game. They want insta win button, as before: thousands of cons, ppshs, T34/85, ouraaaah, I WIN. Soooo complicated.
3. Sustaining Relic wants to please "german fanboys" it's silly. Just look at the votes performed on this forums, for petitions like "balance the game. I can't win with soviets. Waaaaa.....". You will find the majority of voters are soviet faction sympathizers or exclusive soviet faction players, as yourself. How you can figure that? Look at votes outcome.

So, I'm sorry, I can't agree to your unbased arguments and afirmations.

SSHeini mind posting your steam profile id? I'm assuming you have a decent amount of games with both factions since you are commenting on balance.

SSHeini mind posting your steam profile id? I'm assuming you have a decent amount of games with both factions since you are commenting on balance.

Just a quick question/tip, has nothing to do with balance or your credibility:
It looks like you entered your Steam ID here on Coh2.org probably so that other people can see your ladder profile? I assume that because if I hover over the picture under your name it says: SteamID set to private and not like most people: unknown SteamID.

I and other people had the same problem when the feature was new, because for yourself it shows the link and the picture, but other people can't click it.

To fix it you have to set your SteamID to public or something like that, here in the coh2.org forum settings.

With the assault package and molotovs you should really have no problem at all, and if you are I want to see the replay.

Pioneers are the first unit Ost have access to. PPSH is again a doctrinal upgrade, and again the soviets have to rely on a doctrine to compete with basic Ost units.

1. Ummm... news flash for u: your avatar is wearing a german officer uniform. So you are a german fanboy and an SS fan.

This comment truly shows how clueless you are. The avatar is from Hogan's Heroes and depicts Colonel Klink, who is in fact part of the luftwaffe and clearly wears the uniform of it...

Frickadelle, you've been drinking or what? What game are we playing? I'm playing COH2, are you sure you play the same game? Because if so, I really can't explain how me and other players around here have no problem at all while playing soviets in the new patch. Clearing Maxim with a single rifle nade? I really, really want a replay with that maybe I'll learn something new. Oh, except situations where your maxim is in the middle of a cement road firing at german grenadiers who are in green cover. You would like grenadiers being beaten even in this position, aren't you? Well for your info, even a con squad can beat a heavy mg42 if they are close enough and use cover while MG42 doesn't. Attack move and win? Well, then maybe we should all go and play SC2. I won with soviets several times after 25 march patch and used simple tactics like this one: closing with cons from multiple directions, using cover. Cover, remember? Heavy mgs still drop like flies to molotovs. I used combined penal troops with cons. Mines. Heavy mortars. T4 or call-ins. By the time enemy had a panther and a brumbar, I had 2 SU-85s. And guess what? Owned him.
The only thing different now is that soviet faction players need to exit from their"spam and win" boots and play as germans played before. Combining more, using cover, etc. Not just storming mindlessly into your opponent. The new patch punishes such behaviours and you know what? I am happy it does.

Not sure if trolling or... :/
I'm not sure imputing someone to not actually play the same is productive to the discussion. Also, I miss relations to issues me and other users already mentioned . The problem is, it seems you didn't face a german player on your level. The german just goes back and stays on range, that's it. Also there are places on maps where there just is no cover. This would mean germany has an all game advantage there??? No, I don't think it's fair! We also discussed strats far far away from just rushing, but better read the really well written post from Volsky again!

This comment truly shows how clueless you are. The avatar is from Hogan's Heroes and depicts Colonel Klink, who is in fact part of the luftwaffe and clearly wears the uniform of it...

I just exagerrated to point out what was obvious and replaying in the same way. Of course that is not an SS uniform.

P.S. When it comes to history, weapons or uniforms, I might know more than you can imagine, my friend.

P.S. number 2: Anyway, seems around 70% of people want the things as they were before, meaning soviet OP and nobody cares about balance, they just want to look at their favourite army and clap their hands while they obtain an easy victory.
If this is what the majority wants, so be it. My bad, I thought the balance would come first in order to make a game nice.

You act like nerfing the Sovs so it's Germany > Russia now is fair because before it was Russia > Germany.

I don't think this is how balance should be implemented. Just changing the roles regarding needed effort to come equal to the enemy is a pretty bad idea.

P.S. When it comes to history, weapons or uniforms, I might know more than you can imagine, my friend.

Then you'd know that the first rule of history is evidence.

P.S. number 2: Anyway, seems around 70% of people want the things as they were before, meaning soviet OP and nobody cares about balance, they just want to look at their favourite army and clap their hands while they obtain an easy victory.
If this is what the majority wants, so be it. My bad, I thought the balance would come first in order to make a game nice.

Loosen your tinfoil hat. This isn't some conspiracy against players who prefer germans over soviets. If soviets had the advantage previous patch that doesn't mean one faction should have the advantage in the next. That isn't a definiton of balance.

If people can't discuss balance without jumping into fanboy arguments I suggest one to stay out of the balance forums.

/rant

If people can't discuss balance without jumping into fanboy arguments I suggest one to stay out of the balance forums.

/rant

I'll take your suggestion, but not for the reasons you posted. When game launched, I chose soviet faction, liked it more. Then, seeing after some patches that germans were so much nerfed, I swiched because it became borring with soviets. Same tactics, then win. What I believe, is that the game needs to be challanging for each faction in the same way and require the same amount of micro. But I can understand people don't want that. So yes, I will stay out of these forums. I just feel sorry about this beautiful game who finally reached some balance which, of course, it will be ruined soon enough because next iminent soviet buffs. Even so, it will be more challanging to play with germans, because THERE WILL BE A TRUE CHALLANGE. Probably, that is why the majority of people, when you automach, are playing with germans. Because people like challange in a game, they are not looking for a easy win, they want a reward for their playing effort.

Have fun!