End the pisspoor Pak performance

can't even shooter over a couple of bushes. how fucking hard is it to do the bare minimum of balance? holy fuck

looks like someone had a unlucky game....

the guy responsible for the zis ought to be fired

So is this thread about pak or zis?

So is this thread about pak or zis?

both really, but it affects soviets more for obvious reasons

some historical tidbits:

Combat experience showed the superiority of ZiS-3 over all other types of divisional level field guns.

how relic interpreted this:

Zis-3 needs to die to all relevant targets, especially Scout Cars and should even die to Pios.

"This gun is a masterpiece of artillery systems design."

in the game as

"Lol, fuck you!"

Soviet soldiers liked ZiS-3 guns for their extreme reliability, durability, and accuracy.

Relics take:

HQ already regrets their decision the moment they click the button, they're a waste of MP, can't hit a Building even if they're in front of it and they do a complete wipe everytime a mortar on the map sneezes, despite being in green cover. Also, fuck cover, we'll do a seperate patch for that."

ZiS-3 had good anti-armour capabilities, it could knock out any German light and medium tank with its armour-piercing round. The appearance of the Tiger I and later the Panther, however, made the lives of ZiS-3 crews much harder, for their frontal armour was immune except for some small ballistic windows.

How Relic sees it:

Already stops working when enemy builds Pio.

yeah dude, you just had some bad luck, try using zis-3s again. or come back to this thread tommorow when you've cleared your head, zis' works fine for me.

yeah dude, you just had some bad luck, try using zis-3s again. or come back to this thread tommorow when you've cleared your head, zis' works fine for me.

I did not made this post because I lost a game, but because the performance of Paks and the Zis in particular has proven to be shite in several hundred games.

Crucial units like Zis or T34 underperforming is exactly what is breaking this game. Instead we have all sort of hilarious and worthless gimmicks tuned to the max.

I think the ZiS is fine--it just faces tanks with far too much health and armor.

The Zis is pretty nasty to armor, but it does need to be supported once heavier armor appears.

Pios really should never being getting close to a Zis since it should be all the way behind the lines.

Both guns should have a hold fire against infantry. That is truly needed. Otherwise fine.

I think the ZiS is fine--it just faces tanks with far too much health and armor.

they need a faster setup time. and fix their microissues such as not being able to shoot over a bush.


they're actually OK vs armor now, the problem is just that there still is no reason to build paks vs armor when you can instead build armor yourself. however, their ability to deal with light vehicles is simply terrible and that cockblocks quite a number of interesting strategies - especially for the soviets. paks should perform vs. light vehicles like HMGs vs infantry.

Zis is a light vehicle and medium tank SOFT COUNTER but the Pak is a Light Vehicle and Medium Tank HARD COUNTER. Arent we trying to normalize and make everything Micro dependant? Where is the great Micro on the Pak required to make it Perform better than the Zis? o.O

Edit: I put Pak required to perform better than the Pak I meant better than the Zis

Zis is a light vehicle and medium tank SOFT COUNTER but the Pak is a Light Vehicle and Medium Tank HARD COUNTER. Arent we trying to normalize and make everything Micro dependant? Where is the great Micro on the Pak required to make it Perform better than the Pak? o.O

When I say Pak I refert to both guns, Zis-26 and Pak-43. That's because PaK is also the classification for these kind of guns.

Before I thought zis half strong, I've lost to a crazy spams, 4 and 5 AT another KV8 with fire, but the AT is half bad, though the Soviets have an advantage against PAK, 2 men for having the most !

What I always found strange, is a tank shooting at AT and no one dying, and when no one in the abandoned AT, gives 2 or 3 shots and ready, destroys the AT, but if you have 6 guys there, gives 10 shots and nothing!

But this ghost shots happen too to the AT's... Like with the Tanks... The infantry too...

Need less armor for all infantry... And doo some buff to all big guns...

More real game!

Zis is a light vehicle and medium tank SOFT COUNTER but the Pak is a Light Vehicle and Medium Tank HARD COUNTER. Arent we trying to normalize and make everything Micro dependant? Where is the great Micro on the Pak required to make it Perform better than the Zis? o.O

Edit: I put Pak required to perform better than the Pak I meant better than the Zis

A question easily answered. The micro intensive play of the PaK lies within the fact that if you leave it in the same place for longer than 5sec youll get precision strike-fucked, by either mortars or arty. Maybe the heavens rain fire or a wild KV8 might appear from behind the bushed. Then again, it could also die to soviet snipers, a barking combat engineer or just drop dead cause it realizes just how shit it is when it comes to anything but DPS.

In all seriousness though. The PaK cant keep infantry at a distance with arty, cant kill suppressed squads with arty, cant survive a single mortar shot if it lands right on top. You get flanked by just one conscript squad that focuses fire, even with grens around, and your PaK dies. It also goes down to soviet tanks too easily. T70, when not fausted or completely retarded due to pathing, easily avoids and outruns a PaK. T34 AOE is enough to decrew it, bigger tanks like KV8 and IS2 completely rape it without breaking a sweat.

Yes, the Zis underperforms against heavier armour like Tigers and vet2 Panthers. No questioning that. But the PaK40 underperforms just as much vs anything that isnt a badly managed t70 or an SU85. Most other vehicles can easily outrun/avoid/kill it. You make it look like the PaK40 is some sort of wunderwaffe while the Zis is shit. Thats just not true man. Its relatively fast rof is a gods gift, but that is also due to the fact that the PaK sucks at survivability and may just aswell die to rain drops...

Before I thought zis half strong, I've lost to a crazy spams, 4 and 5 AT another KV8 with fire, but the AT is half bad, though the Soviets have an advantage against PAK, 2 men for having the most !

What I always found strange, is a tank shooting at AT and no one dying, and when no one in the abandoned AT, gives 2 or 3 shots and ready, destroys the AT, but if you have 6 guys there, gives 10 shots and nothing!

But this ghost shots happen too to the AT's... Like with the Tanks... The infantry too...

Need less armor for all infantry... And doo some buff to all big guns...

More real game!

This man is crazy, ignore his cries. AP rounds DONT kill people. That is why basic fire of AT guns rarely kill models, and you circle field guns to death anyways, not charge them and park in front of them. Again, thinking a tank is supposed to run over its hard counter. That is not how real life works...

Overall, AT guns are somewhat of a hassle, and ZiS often just stops doing its job for no reason and the pak drops dead the second it walks out of its base.