How to further improve coh2

i agree molotovs (or all flame weapons for that matter) need changes. even if its rare, the fact a molotov can crit every entity in a squad and wipe it is just annoying. other times you can throw a molotov on an mg and have it barely do anything. this is an example of too much randomness in my opinion. id rather see that crit chance removed and replaced with higher dps. more consistent and predictable flame weapons would be beneficial for both sides.

if you consider that a nerf, so be it.

Yeah, well, I guess it is not about "ubermensch" to win, it's about balance in a game, no matter if we talk about germans, russians, americans, protos or zerg. So all you frustrated people just cut it off. The fact that even supressed a con squad can throw you a molotov in the face, it's a real thing but I don't complain; still I think we should not make comments that exceed the game technical build.
People get frustrated if their tactics don't work. Well find another one that does, and adapt. Better, please play with both factions and then your opinion will be viable.
I saw too few opinions that deserve to be accounted. And one of them is the vetted squad wipe problem that german infantry has. Much, much rare on the soviet side, however. S mines are fine, they needed this boost and they should be left like this. Otherwise, other questions should be asked: WHY PPSH UPGRADE COSTS 30 AMO WHILE G43 UPGRADE COSTS 60?. Don't need to remind you that a PPSH con unit owns a G43 grenadier unit, do I?

I never tested G43 vs PPSH fight but what I can tell you is that 60 ammo Lmg on Grens > 30 ammo PPSH on conscripts.

If what you are saying its true, then there's no reason to upgrade to G43 right now, and it may needs a change (Without modify PPSH or LMG) based on a price reducion or a damage dealt.

G43 is long range upgrade that increases your squads range with build in map hack, the cost for it is fine.

Ppsh is exclusively close quarters combat weapon.

Ppsh will win close up only if cons won't loose too many models on approach, G43 will win against anything at range.

Supression = reduce range of abilities. No more molotovs rush from the front, riflenade long distance shot or any bundle nade.

G43 is long range upgrade that increases your squads range with build in map hack, the cost for it is fine.

Ppsh is exclusively close quarters combat weapon.

Ppsh will win close up only if cons won't loose too many models on approach, G43 will win against anything at range.

I can also speak theoretically, and make a beautifull story, even with credible arguments.
The FACT about G43s against PPSHs THAT I MET in 2 1v1 games untill now is this:

In 99% of engagements a G43 gren squad will loose to a PPSH con squad because:
You really must be retarded as russian if you keep your distance while G43s are firing at you. So you close quickly, even with "ouraaah" ability. Untill you reach the perfect distance rarely G43 squad will kill you ONE man. In that moment, what G43 squad should do?
Option 1 - keep distance. Perfect. But this means loosing cover, and PPSH is not so bad as you try to say from medium distance. Untill gren squad reaches a new cover, they are likely to be 2 models short, and nothing stops cons squad from pursuing. Further, if con squad uses "ouraaah" the "keeping distance" effort will be in vain;
Option 2 - remain in cover and keep shooting at enemy squad. Great. But then PPSH con squad - that now owns 3 PPSH not 2 as before - will tear G43 gren squad to shreds.

What I said here is referring to 1 on 1 situation G43 gren against PPSH con whithout other units involved (mg's, etc).

Of course, on the battlefield there are many situation where you can compensate by good tactics, but thinking at these 2 units and at the fact that are both similar and have the same purpose while being built from first minute of the game, I have to say that the light infantry package creates an advantage for soviets compared to the light infantry package that germans get.

Which made me finally say: at list let us compensate by these S-mines that became finally usable.

I never tested G43 vs PPSH fight but what I can tell you is that 60 ammo Lmg on Grens > 30 ammo PPSH on conscripts.

If what you are saying its true, then there's no reason to upgrade to G43 right now, and it may needs a change (Without modify PPSH or LMG) based on a price reducion or a damage dealt.

Right. Though, keep in mind that the lmg will stop firing while gren squad is moving. G43 won't. Meaning if cons are molotoving you, they will buy time shooting at your lmg squad untill the lmg gunner will shoot again.

Right. Though, keep in mind that the lmg will stop firing while gren squad is moving. G43 won't. Meaning if cons are molotoving you, they will buy time shooting at your lmg squad untill the lmg gunner will shoot again.

That's called balance. If LMG upgrade would mean Insta Win against conscript, then it's not funny. Me as an Ostheer player I like challenges and every faction should have a counter for any kind of unit / strategy.

*Sigh.... Russian Sniper... Sigh* ¿When will we have a good counter for you? =)

That's called balance.

....maybe. Though with ppshs and molotovs a con squad is likely to win against a gren squad with lmg/G43 and rifle grenade. That's my point.
In my opinion, there are lots of ways to solve that: 1.Making lmg doctrinal and G43s default for instance; or 2.Reducing G43's cost; or 3.increasing ppsh upgrade cost; or 4. adding an extra G43 (if I'm not mistaken, german squad receives 2).

....maybe. Though with ppshs and molotovs a con squad is likely to win against a gren squad with lmg/G43 and rifle grenade. That's my point.
In my opinion, there are lots of ways to solve that: 1.Making lmg doctrinal and G43s default for instance; or 2.Reducing G43's cost; or 3.increasing ppsh upgrade cost; or 4. adding an extra G43 (if I'm not mistaken, german squad receives 2).

Solving one problem by tinkering with completely other stats might have unforseen consequences. If the ppshs are overpreforming, then either increase cost or make sure ppsh gets back in line.

From what I can remember, it atleast it felt like the 2x campaign ppsh that were used instead of the mp one seemed ok. Now, i dont have any stats to back this up sadly, but it felt like 3x mp-ppsh > 2x campaign ppsh > 2x mp-ppsh. It feels like it was the middleground. I could be wrong though. So one solution (even if its inconsistant) is to use a diffrent ppsh on conscripts than on shocks. Thoughts about this way to solve it?

@Le Wish
Current 3x ppsh deal less DPS then old 2x sp ppsh, only difference is they are better on the move(75% acc penalty instead of 50% and 50% longer burst).

Sp ppsh had well over 30dps combined, current ones have about 25 while close up and stationary.

Solving one problem by tinkering with completely other stats might have unforseen consequences. If the ppshs are overpreforming, then either increase cost or make sure ppsh gets back in line.

From what I can remember, it atleast it felt like the 2x campaign ppsh that were used instead of the mp one seemed ok. Now, i dont have any stats to back this up sadly, but it felt like 3x mp-ppsh > 2x campaign ppsh > 2x mp-ppsh. It feels like it was the middleground. I could be wrong though. So one solution (even if its inconsistant) is to use a diffrent ppsh on conscripts than on shocks. Thoughts about this way to solve it?

Not bad, it could be a good solution, though I think it will be easier to just make them worth 50 amo for instance (which is still less than 2 G43s worth).

g43 grens usually have the advantage over conscripts with ppsh, unless conscripts get the jump on them at close range.

Also if you cant dodge molotovs l2p

g43 grens usually have the advantage over conscripts with ppsh, unless conscripts get the jump on them at close range.

Also if you cant dodge molotovs l2p

Do you know any case when conscripts with ppsh won't jump on a infantry unit at close range? I don't.
Who said anything about not being able to dodge molotovs?

Do you know any case when conscripts with ppsh won't jump on a infantry unit at close range? I don't.
Who said anything about not being able to dodge molotovs?

If concscripts want to go close range, they will have to get out of cover, and usually g43 grens will kill atleast 2 guys before conscripts get in their optimal range.
However,if you plan correctly, and ambush your opponent with ppsh, then your concsripts should win, but i mean fuck tactics, germans are supposed to be a-move and win right?

If concscripts want to go close range, they will have to get out of cover, and usually g43 grens will kill atleast 2 guys before conscripts get in their optimal range.
However,if you plan correctly, and ambush your opponent with ppsh, then your concsripts should win, but i mean fuck tactics, germans are supposed to be a-move and win right?

No, they are not supposed to be like that. In fact, closer of what you described, are currently the soviets.
You are wrong about G43s. They won't kill 2 models until cons reach the optimal range. And even if they do, the rest of the con squad will beat the G43 squad thanks to their PPSHs.

No, they are not supposed to be like that. In fact, closer of what you described, are currently the soviets.
You are wrong about G43s. They won't kill 2 models until cons reach the optimal range. And even if they do, the rest of the con squad will beat the G43 squad thanks to their PPSHs.

then we seem to be playing 2 diffrent games.

So what I am getting from reading this thread is that the Molotov should be nerfed because people can't micro out of the way. Also are to lazy to move their mg and conscripts can orahh up to a mg42. Grenadiers can just riflenade a maxim and force it off the field. Vanilla grens and lmg/g43 grens will easily beat vanilla cons, but ppsh cons are op because they finally have chance against German infantry and kill then? So, German infantry should always kills Conscripts? This is the most biased thread I ever seen. Why is relic even reading this? It is being primarily posted by people who have admitted to being primarly German players

So what I am getting from reading this thread is that the Molotov should be nerfed because people can't micro out of the way. Also are to lazy to move their mg and conscripts can orahh up to a mg42. Grenadiers can just riflenade a maxim and force it off the field. Vanilla grens and lmg/g43 grens will easily beat vanilla cons, but ppsh cons are op because they finally have chance against German infantry and kill then? So, German infantry should always kills Conscripts? This is the most biased thread I ever seen. Why is relic even reading this? It is being primarily posted by people who have admitted to being primarly German players

Such utter bullcrap, sorry to say. I think you have it all twisted...

So what I am getting from reading this thread is that the Molotov should be nerfed because people can't micro out of the way. Also are to lazy to move their mg and conscripts can orahh up to a mg42. Grenadiers can just riflenade a maxim and force it off the field. Vanilla grens and lmg/g43 grens will easily beat vanilla cons, but ppsh cons are op because they finally have chance against German infantry and kill then? So, German infantry should always kills Conscripts? This is the most biased thread I ever seen. Why is relic even reading this? It is being primarily posted by people who have admitted to being primarly German players

Dat strawman. How about you actually read what people are actually saying, hmmm? A molotov, when it connects successfully, very often killing at minimum one german model instantly, ripping 25% of the dps of that unit, usually forcing a retreat. People feel that it would be better if molotovs did more DOT than crits, turning them into tools of area denial.

I have no idea what your second sentence is even saying since it's worded so poorly. A maxim has six men available to man a piece of equipment that can surpress/pin any other infantry, and one rifle nade hardly ever kills enough men for the mg to no longer be useful.

Holy smokes, a 60 muni upgrade makes a unit way more effective against a fresh unupgraged unit, no shit. Also to significantly drop the dps of a ppsh con squad, you need to kill a minimum of 4 models, but other than that, I don't consider cons to be nearly as big of an issue as others here think they are, since their dps has been nerfed already.