Balance between AI and AT units.

Hey!
First of all sorry for my english.
Before I start play as soviets I had played as germans to 85lv so Im newbie as russian.
Firt, how to counter a Panthers? I know, blind with guards, stun with cons and then finish with SU85, ZiS, whatever.. But is it sound ridiculous? I need few different types of units to destroy 1 type unit. Ok, lets say I prepared everything for Panthers. Mines, ZiS with cover, SU85 in the backgroung, guards. But what if they rush with infantry? ZiSs nad SUs wont be useful. I guess MGs spam...
I need many different unitis combination to counter (make counter with such fast and mobile units like ZiS/SU85 is veeery simple...). Lets say I secured points, put every unit in right position, then germans push with panthers, grenadires, and panzergrenadires. I need to operate many different units at the same time while germans use only 2 types.
What units should I make to be prepered for tanks and infrantry?
Germans have MG42 mounts on tanks which in fact make them in 1 type unit army in late game. They spam Panthers, sometime PGrenadires. Thats all.
How to find balance between AI and AT units? How to prepare for infs and tanks attack at the same time? I need to spend full units limit to counter 2 panthers and 3 squads infantry. ISU or IS are very effective against Inf but those are doctrinal units while Brumbarr is not...

Also I dont get it why assault grenadiers are available from 0 CP and russians guards/stromtroopers form 2 CP. I guess I should use Cons agains assault grenadires? Great chance to succeed...

By the way, I just finished 4 games 4v4 as soviets - all lost. Once we had advantage, but when 3 panthers came it was end. Also 1 as germans and you know what? It was very, very fast and easy victory. Most my games are 4v4 and in my opinon soviets are unplaybale in 4v4 game.

Hey!
First of all sorry for my english.
Before I start play as soviets I had played as germans to 85lv so Im newbie as russian.
Firt, how to counter a Panthers? I know, blind with guards, stun with cons and then finish with SU85, ZiS, whatever.. But is it sound ridiculous? I need few different types of units to destroy 1 type unit. Ok, lets say I prepared everything for Panthers. Mines, ZiS with cover, SU85 in the backgroung, guards. But what if they rush with infantry? ZiSs nad SUs wont be useful. I guess MGs spam...
I need many different unitis combination to counter (make counter with such fast and mobile units like ZiS/SU85 is veeery simple...). Lets say I secured points, put every unit in right position, then germans push with panthers, grenadires, and panzergrenadires. I need to operate many different units at the same time while germans use only 2 types.
What units should I make to be prepered for tanks and infrantry?
Germans have MG42 mounts on tanks which in fact make them in 1 type unit army in late game. They spam Panthers, sometime PGrenadires. Thats all.
How to find balance between AI and AT units? How to prepare for infs and tanks attack at the same time? I need to spend full units limit to counter 2 panthers and 3 squads infantry. ISU or IS are very effective against Inf but those are doctrinal units while Brumbarr is not...

Also I dont get it why assault grenadiers are available from 0 CP and russians guards/stromtroopers form 2 CP. I guess I should use Cons agains assault grenadires? Great chance to succeed...

By the way, I just finished 4 games 4v4 as soviets - all lost. Once we had advantage, but when 3 panthers came it was end. Also 1 as germans and you know what? It was very, very fast and easy victory. Most my games are 4v4 and in my opinon soviets are unplaybale in 4v4 game.

4v4 you will rin into a problem of scale. Like you said. Soviets are at a majir disadvantage late game in this mode.

Mines universally kill. Off maps can force retreat the infantry. But you already have the answer. Also katushas work wonders. Or perhaps put a kv8 behind your at force. KV8s fear no infantry of any kind ever...

The simpliest way to mix AI and AT in COH is to use AI + AT armor.

So Germans:

Brummbar + Panther or Panzer IV + Ostwind

Soviets:

Su-76 + SU-85

there are also armor that is good at 'both' and can be massed for multiple effect:

Is-2

Tiger Tank

Panzer IV

T-34s

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Rockets for both factions give mobile AI

Hi. I actually prefer Soviets over Germans. Here's what I do if playing a team game:

A) Let pioneers build barracks for snipers.
B) When barracks are done, let pioneers secure points. Start building snipers whenever You can.
C) Let pioneers build fuel caches. I usually build 3-4 fuel caches. The rest of manpower is spent on buying snipers. Do notice that there is only one pioneer squad involved. Also, the only infantry one builds is snipers.
D) Hurry with building fuel caches, because You need Your SU85 out as soon as possible. Thus, once You can build a tank company, retreat Your pioneers and build it. Buy an SU85 right away.
E) General tactics: snipers and SU85 are fairly weak. On the other hand, they have enormous range. Keep SU85s with prolonged frontal sight. Move Your army through open spaces, don't force Your army into small corridors. This means: don't capture points with Your army. Let the only pioneers You have capture points behind Your army.
F) Retreat snipers to HQ whenever they are reduced to 1 squad member. Enable nurses in HQ to heal retreated snipers.
G) Now, this point will explain why one would build this type of army. Go for a commander with vehicle repairs and with Mark Target ability. This way You only need 1 squad of pioneers, and if You encounter a panther, Mark Target the panther and focus fire of Your SU85s on it! You'll have 2 SU85s for 1 panther, and if You can, focus all of Your SU85s on 1 single panther, while panther being marked as a target. Panther when marked doesn't stand a chance.
H) This is basically it. Play aggressively moving Your army over open spaces. Retreat sniper always, whenever reduced to 1 squad member. You cannot retreat a squad of zero members, right?
I) Build a light vehicles company to buy M5 half-track if You'd like to reinforce snipers on the field, without the need to retreat them to HQ.
J) When attacking the main base, keep away from map edges, because enemy reinforcements will hit You there point blank. So, attack in open spaces, once again.

Overall tactics overview:
Make a good use of a commander with Mark Target and with Vehicle Auto-repair. Use snipers -- the most lethal anti-infantry unit ever. Use SU85s -- the most lethal anti-tank unit soviets have. Also both SU85 and snipers have huge range, so use them as a support to friend's advancing army or on their own, carefully using SU85s far sight. Don't rush into tight unexplored spaces, for both snipers and SU85s are very fragile. Snipers kill AT guns and the rest of enemy infantry. SU85s kill Panthers and Ostwinds. Well, that's it for a team game :3

If playing 1v1 You can build a clown car M3A1 and put a sniper in it to kill infantry left and right, and call some guards in from off-map if SU85 isn't out yet while armored cars harass You.

Good luck!

If playing 1v1 You can build a clown car M3A1 and put a sniper in it

Since the last patch this is not possible anymore

Hey!
.....say I secured points, put every unit in right position....

Kinda sounds like you are maybe not being aggresive enough. Soviets HAVE to keep pushing the germans back, so that they struggle to field the kind of things your struggling against, if you have played well, they will scrape together enough rss to call in their expensive Panthers, only to face your strong mix of units you already mentioned.

If you sat back and gave them time to field their big units.. then yeah, gonna hurt.

Also yes, 4v4 is not great for soviets, ans its naturally a longer game, where german superiority has more of a chance to shine through.

Indeed! Soviets are always on the move. Always. Germans can build bunkers -- Soviets can't. Cheers :3

Oh, knowing how to manage Your units quickly and efficiently might help too! So here it is:

You can see Your units icons in the upper right corner of Your screen. Hold CTRL and left-click icons of units You want to group together. For Me it's easy: I always group snipers and SU85s together.

When grouped together, a group can be assigned a shortcut key. I use CTRL 1. For engineers I use CTRL 2. So whenever I press 1 on keyboard, I select snipers and SU85s. I move those around as a single unit. Also, whenever I press 2 on keyboard, I select engineers squad.

If You have mixed units in a group, You can select each unit by left-clicking it, of course. Additionally, if You hold CTRL while clicking one unit in a group, You will select all the units in the group of this type. Say I hold CTRL and left-click a sniper in my group 1 consisting of snipers and SU85s. This will select all my snipers from group 1, deselecting SU85s.

Similarly, SHIFT left-clicking a unit will temporarily kick that unit from the group.

Also, F1 key selects HQ, F2 selects barracks and F5 selects tank company. Not game breaking, but handy if You're in the middle of a fight and You have to order a unit production. Gives You more actions per minute.

Pressing key T will retreat all selected units. Pressing R will reinforce all selected units. Using groups is wonderful, You don't have to click all around the map anymore, but You can concentrate on the field.

I hope this was not too trivial Cheers :3

Also, if You don't micro-manage Your units, You will lose.

Explanation:
I use only snipers and SU85s, so I'll explain microing with these 2 units.

Snipers:
Always relocate snipers from one cover to the next cover. When in cover, snipers automatically stealth out. So, if sniper shoots a bullet, and if in cover, sniper will turn invisible after a second. Don't put Your snipers in the middle of a road

Snipers have a huge pause between 2 consecutive shots. It takes about 5 seconds for a sniper to shoot the second shot. So, if Your sniper is close to an enemy unit, sniper might be flamed or granaded, therefore relocate sniper out of the range of close combat weapons. Let sniper shoot a shot then. Then relocate sniper once again, there is a 5 second window open for relocating sniper. Then let sniper stop and shoot again. If necessary -- repeat

Avoid mortar shells if You can. Shoot a shot, then relocate for 5 seconds, if You are being shelled.

Snipers are very fragile. If sniper squad is reduced to only 1 member -- retreat immediately. If 2 member sniper squad is heavily wounded -- retreat immediately.

Finally, snipers will die. But they will die with the 300% efficiency

SU85s:
SU85s have huge sight range with their far sight ability. Use it. Both SU85s and snipers shoot at huge distances. Keep them at open. If enemy closes in -- press U and retreat a tank backwards. Enemy infantry can grenade it, shrek it, button it, and so on. SU85 can shoot far, enemy infantry cannot. If too close to infantry -- back SU85 off using U backwards retreat.

If there are two enemy tanks in the field, try hiding Your tanks so that they can shoot at one enemy tank while being hidden from the other tank. Always relocate SU85s using U backwards retreat. SU85 has a strong frontal armor, but very weak rear armor.

Mark enemy vehicles with Mark Vehicle: any friendly shooting at the enemy marked vehicle will shoot faster! When enemy vehicle is marked -- make all of Your tanks shoot at it at once untill it is destroyed. Follow it if You must -- snipers will cover You!

Use automatic crew repair ability whenever is Your SU85 beneath 50%. Pull it out of combat using U backwards retreat, and when far away from a combat zone, press V to auto-repair the damaged SU85. Use it often, You don't need ammo for anything else!

Finally, if You have huge amount of ammo, let Your pioneers lay mines all over the field

Cheers :3

Oh yes, the commander with vehicle crew repairs and with mark vehicle also has the ability to call an off-map group of 2 T34/85s. If You decide to use T34/85s, stop producing snipers and let engineers build lots of fuel caches, for You'll need fuel for T34/85s.

Do notice that T34/85s are better against infantry than SU85s, but are also more fragile and require more micro. After all, SU85s micro themselves automatically because they don't have a cupola, so they always turn their most armored side to the enemy. On the other hand, T34/85s are definitely more durable than snipers, so I advocate using T34/85s. Be prepared to micro them well, though, for they lack SU85s range and vision.

Cheers :3

T34/85s require more micro than SU85s? LOL

Sure: SU85 has a huge vision range and, although wielding the same 85mm gun, has a bigger gun range than T34/85. An issue with scripts I guess. Furthermore, SU85 will automatically position itself facing the enemy, while T34 will do some crazy turning arounds. So for as long as You keep SU85s away from enemy tanks -- You're good. If too close to enemy tanks -- back up backwards, pressing U, always facing the enemy. That's it, this is SU85 microing. Keep it in open space, avoid corners, use sniper flares, turn SU85 around 360 degrees to see far around, and You'll be good.

Now, T34/85: has poor vision range, has poor gun range, will often turn sideways towards the enemy, instead of facing the enemy frontally. The only use I find for T34/85 is -- killing infantry and being able to auto-repair. Not to mention that T34/85s frontal armor is no match for SU85's hard frontal armor.

I'd go with SU85 and a sniper any day. Cheers :3

34/85s are beast and far more versatile than su85. Ok if you correctly position su85 like you say, they don't need too much looking after.

But 34/85s are a pleasure to micro IMO. They are not difficult to make them perform.

Su85 is ok in one set location, but the moment they need to switch flanks for example, you've got a slow awkward nightmare.