Revitalizing the COH2 community?

involve the customer in the development process, I say. Let us know what you're planning - what your ideas are and we'll let you know if we like them or if we dont. I understand the whole 'people will be mad if we don't meet deadlines we say we will' approach but hell, you dont even have to give deadlines - just outline what your strategies are. There's a lot of support here ready to help out with that - true, there are others who couldn't care less but they don't make the final decisions.

It seems to me that there is a real lack of information available to people who play Coh2. I mean, there's no leaderboards in game (what was happening with those Steam leaderboards btw?) lobby chat boxes are really hard to see - other player information and community news isn't visible in game. I mean, where are people supposed to go for this stuff if not in the game itself?

I think the business model started off as focusing on the entire package of the game - sp + Mp and everything else and it was treated as a product but really now that time has passed and the singleplayer has passed on you should be looking to treat Coh2 as a service now, and not a product. We already bought it (quite a few of us for the multiplayer) and what would really impress me and get me playing more as a customer would be increased quality of the service provided for the branch of the game i really want to play the most.

+1 Marcus

1. Steam leaderboards are in game: http://steamcommunity.com/stats/COH2/leaderboards/147401/ and there are also individual/friends leaderboards.

2. They have a public alpha for their dedicated servers. I consider that pretty good communication, personally.

3. Many of the changes have come directly from the community. See changes to structure dynamics (life consistency and survivability of garrisoned troops) and support weapon team damage taken increase, as 2 examples.

Talking about revitalizing a game that's on the market for 7 months... are you kidding me?

I'll list a series of points from viable to sheer pipe dream. These are all made with the hope of getting more people into CoH2.

#1 - Bring back custom lobbies ala coh1 style (and maybe chatrooms):

Why was it necessary to remove custom game lobbies? They were probably the most popular feature in CoH1. I understand maybe a quarter were comp stomps and Relic have indeed setup an automatch system for comp stompers. However for the rest who actually wanna verse other players, automatch is pretty intimidating. So by force funnelling the entire player base into competitive automatch, while the community may have gained a few extra players who may not have automatched had the system not been in place, it effectively alienated an untold number of players who simple do not want to play automatch with symptoms like "ladder anxiety" or not knowing who they are up against.

Custom lobbies in CoH1 gave you the comfort to know who you were playing against. While they still exist in the form of invite only in CoH2, why was it necessary to remove PUBLIC custom games? I speak for myself, and I know many others, but I played for a solid 6-12 months of custom game lobbies, learning the game, taking comfort in the certainty of the map that was being played and who I was up against. I.e. no one too good, no obvious smurfs etc.

After that, I was able to gather the balls to actually get into automatch. I know for a fact that this form of progression was not unique to just myself, many followed this path. Now I add "and maybe chatrooms" to the end of that, like the fansite chatrooms we used to have on CoH1, for something awful forums, gamereplays etc., they were mostly cesspits but sometimes you could find some friends. Sometimes.

Custom game lobbies was what formed the in game community. New players shouldn't be obliged to go to community websites like CoH2 to chat or meet new people in game.

#2 - In game ranking system similar to CoH1

Bring back the 1-20 rank style system, or as marcus said earlier leagues. Something OBVIOUS in the form of a portrait, avatar or icon to SHOW what skill bracket/skill level you are at. This level 1-100 nonsense is pure fluff that tells me nothing of an individual player's skill. Anyone can hit level 100, you will get rank 1-2000 players at that level. You may as well add a prestige system like Call of duty. *facepalm* (not serious DON'T do this)

Bring back a tangible rank system like CoH1, it was pretty awesome seeing that you were a colonel or brigadier general or whatever.

#3 More free to play weekends

The last free to play weekend had a HUGE surge of players. I think CoH2 peaked at 16k concurrent players on the weekend which is amazing. Please do more of these, once a month or perhaps twice a month. I'm well aware that this game still has a business mind set so this is why this is listed #3 in terms of viability.

#4 - Tone down the mountain of DLC or market it differently

This is probably the biggest culprit as to why there is little player retention or barely any new players are sticking around for multi, and yet it is listed as #4 because I know that this will most likely not change. Lets forget the fact that removal of custom game lobbies and/or chat rooms have neutered the possibility of blossoming a thriving community, the sheer amount of paid DLC is staggering to the point where it is almost comical.

Is CoH2 going to down the path of train simulator where it had over $2k in DLC options? Obviously not but to many on the outside its getting to that point. Its a joke for a game like this to have a mountain of DLC like that. Many uninformed consumers are simply going to think that some of these commanders are ESSENTIAL to stay competitive in MP which is simply not the case. Yes, many think the game is pay to win. Either sell only DLC that affects single-player, theatre of war etc., and release more SKIN DLC. Skin DLCs, avatars, portraits are GREAT for DLC. No one cares about those in terms of keeping the game competitive, go nuts on those if you want.

I know this marketing design was due to sega, so I forgive Relic for this one. They have to meet some sort of quota or whatever for DLC, I have no idea but I know it was as a result of pressure from sega. So please, relook how and what DLC is sold. Make all commanders free, or unlockable in game. Refund players who bought commander DLC, prioritise making a lot more single-player, or co-op DLC and more aesthetic related DLC.

#5 - Go free to play

For the last one, its obvious as why this is the least viable, but I will say it nonetheless. With the amount of DLC available, its the starter to a free to play model. This is probably the fastest and easiest way for the community to skyrocket to a daily 15-20k + concurrent players, if the free to play weekend was anything to go by. From a business point of view, its probably not feasible unless someone competent with brains can think of how they can still make the game profitable by adding more DLC, or increasing prices on DLC and such for free to play consumers. I don't know, I'm not the paid professional here, those at Relic are, so its up to them.

Some suggestions off the top of my head are make the MP a free experience, make the single player a paid for add on, like wise for theatre of war. But if you make the MP a free experience it would create a huge surge of new players into the game and skill brackets may actually exist now. Foreseeable problems for the game from a consumer stand point from this first and foremost is that there will be a huge increase in drop hacks/potential cheaters.

Anti-cheat specialists at Relic would have to work hard to figure how to counter this, but I have faith that they would eventually figure it out. From a business stand point, it takes huge balls from relic/sega, and it requires a competent team to make some smart decisions to figure out how they can maximise profits. You want more players? You want to make the name of CoH2 bigger and get it out there? Go free to play.

Anyway, this point is literally a pipe dream like I said in my first sentence. But hey, its there.

CoH2 isn't a very compelling competitive game, and the trend with competitive games like RTS games recently is the games that are good competitively are the games with lots of players. Look at LoL, Dota 2, SC2. LoL actually pays something like 8 or 16 professional teams, and they see it as a marketing expense because they realize how valuable a competitive scene is for exposure and publicity. Funny how it's also one of the most popular games ever.

A successful multiplayer games these days tends to have a strong competitive scene and elements that appeal to casual players. I can't speak to the casual scene, of course, but I know personally the competitive scene is very dull currently. If that changes, you'll see CoH2 grow.

^This guy has summed it up pretty well.

I agree that for competitive play the suggestion for leagues is a great way to get players of all skill levels involved. However I also suggest that players at the top end of their respected leagues should be rewarded as there is nothing currently apart form the leader-boards that makes player want to reach higher positions in ranked. By awarding players a certain medal, face-plate or rank like in vcoh, players will be more inclined to play ranked games as they want to earn that recognition.

1. Steam leaderboards are in game: http://steamcommunity.com/stats/COH2/leaderboards/147401/ and there are also individual/friends leaderboards.

Yeah when i played vcoh (I was average at best) I knew i would never hit the top 10 list or whatever but i didnt care, i only cared about being promoted to the next rank.. and later when had played it for years, get promoted to a rank I have never achived before and so on.

Its not as good as lol/sc2 league system but it was way better than this crappy level system and with coh2.org ladder search. I mean cmon guys, put in a little effort.

The trimmings like leaderboards, leagues, and obs mode are all fine and necessary but they're not the root of the problem. The root of the problem is in game design and in the business model. COH1 had very few trimmings, but people played it passionately because it challenged them both strategically and tactically on an even playing field. COH2 has root problems in both areas. The window of viable winning strategies very much depends on DLC commander units, which is not a fair and even playing field. COH2 is stuck in a limbo between the COH1 business model (sell a $60 game up front and then release a few expansions) and the LoL business model (release a free-to-play multiplayer and then make bank off microtransactions and a vibrant esports scene).

1- Stop releasing multiplayer DLCs.
2- Make free all previously DLC commanders and give some kind of prize to the people who bought them, like free skins or faceplates or something.
3- Stop selling overpriced singleplayer DLCs like Victory at Stalingrad.

Then, and only then, you can start fixing lag, leaderboards and everything else.

But I doubt it will work, as this game has earned already the tag of money-grabber software with more expensive DLCs than real features.
Anyone seeing the Steam store should be afraid to bought it watching the huge amount of DLC the game has.

The trimmings like leaderboards, leagues, and obs mode are all fine and necessary but they're not the root of the problem. The root of the problem is in game design and in the business model. COH1 had very few trimmings, but people played it passionately because it challenged them both strategically and tactically on an even playing field. COH2 has root problems in both areas. The window of viable winning strategies very much depends on DLC commander units, which is not a fair and even playing field. COH2 is stuck in a limbo between the COH1 business model (sell a $60 game up front and then release a few expansions) and the LoL business model (release a free-to-play multiplayer and then make bank off microtransactions and a vibrant esports scene).

This is pretty much what I was trying to say. The game itself isn't fun to watch, and I don't find it fun to play as someone who likes to play games competitively. There's a lot of shit in the actual game that has to be sorted out before we see the community really grow.

The game itself isn't fun to watch, and I don't find it fun to play [...].

This sentence should be carved in stone in Relic's headquarters.


Thinking about tournaments, leagues, etc, is pointless when the game is not fun.

I think Relic wasted a golden opportunity with COH2, and will have to work that much extra to get the community growing again. I mean, it is the sequel to "the highest rated RTS of all time", and they already had a healthy fanbase, yet they managed to alianate a lot of fans, and generally give the game a bad name.

The game was released in a verry unfinished state, they messed with the COH formula and made changes noone asked for, they designed the game with DLCs in mind, thus shaping gameplay and core elements of the game in order to milk the product, not to promote better gameplay, the game lack some of the mest basic multiplayerfeatures, like lobbies, and they managed to piss off the Russian community, wich could have been an extremely profitable market, given the setting of the game.

The word of mouth effect greatly benefitted vCOH and the community, and I think COH2 being such a dissapointment to a lot of people has had a similair, though negative, effect.

Relic will have to do a lot of work improving theire product if they want this to change, and pherhaps even change some of the game fundamentals, wich it is doubtfull that they ever will. I really dont see the franchise fully recover anytime soon though, as the damage is already done, and rebuilding the COH name is way much harder than ruining it.

The overwhelming negativity of the highest level players in this game is very disheartening to me. I didn't get in on the ground floor of dow2, and so was trapped behind the learning curve of that game... by the time I got interested in playing multiplayer, there were barely any active players any more. I totally bypassed coh1 thanks to my bias against WW2 games (learned that lesson the hard way!) and now most people seem to think coh2 is somewhere between awful but fixable and irredeemable.

This is not my perspective on the game, but what is 1 or 2 positive voices against a tidal wave of negativity?

I enjoy tactical games far more than traditional RTSes. I enjoy fighting over objectives like victory points more than "build an army and destroy the enemy base" and where else am I to find that? End of Nations imploded on itself, C&C4 remains the laughingstock of the industry, Men OF War 2 seems doomed to relative obscurity as well as potentially being the victim of its own complexity. The Wargame titles, likewise, have a learning curve like a cliff and fewer players than CoH1...

Are RTS or tactics players doomed to StarCraft 2's high apm spamfest, or Planetary Annihilation's macro-centric tidal waves of units, or to migrate to 1 man squad control of MOBAs like Dota 2 or LOL?

This game is the closest thing to the type of game I'm looking for that still has an active community, but the community itself seems to resent it.

I've gotta be honest, why is it that we (the community aka playing customers) see where the DLC model could go (cosmetic a la TW: Empires etc) but Relic doesn't?

I say this with respect, I'm sure they know what they are doing but still...

I've gotta be honest, why is it that we (the community aka playing customers) see where the DLC model could go (cosmetic a la TW: Empires etc) but Relic doesn't?

I say this with respect, I'm sure they know what they are doing but still...

Because the people who buy DLCs, and give them money, are the same people that make the community diminish every day.

This is pretty much what I was trying to say. The game itself isn't fun to watch, and I don't find it fun to play

Ok,you have finally persuaded me (20 oldcohpros cant be wrong can they?,)uninstalling it at the moment...
I like the genre and would like another game. What game is better than coh2 in the same genre?

Ok,you have finally persuaded me (20 oldcohpros cant be wrong can they?,)uninstalling it at the moment...
I like the genre and would like another game. What game is better than coh2 in the same genre?

Better? That's going to be debatable based on preference. Some people prefer the original COH, but that's almost assuredly entirety peopled by a smallish cadre of veteran players. The same would be true of Wargsme AirLand Battle, World in Conflict, Men of War Assault Squad or any other existing RTT/tactical RTS out there. Despite the vitriol that coh2 community leaders rain down upon it, this is probably the most populated game of this type from a multiplayer perspective.

Other options would be more macro, base destruction (traditional) RTSes like StarCraft 2, Planetary Annihilation or Age of Empires 2 HD. If you find a similar game with a larger community, let me know.

Old but still valid:
"Nothing kills a bad product faster than good advertising."
~ David Ogilvy

1- Stop releasing multiplayer DLCs.
2- Make free all previously DLC commanders and give some kind of prize to the people who bought them, like free skins or faceplates or something.
3- Stop selling overpriced singleplayer DLCs like Victory at Stalingrad.

Then, and only then, you can start fixing lag, leaderboards and everything else.

But I doubt it will work, as this game has earned already the tag of money-grabber software with more expensive DLCs than real features.
Anyone seeing the Steam store should be afraid to bought it watching the huge amount of DLC the game has.

^^This pretty much sums up a very disheartening chat I had with a new coworker about gaming.

Abbreviated version of my coworkers free CoH2 weekend (as I remember it):
My colleague..

• ... saw the free weekend offer.
  
• ... made his way to the store page and read the description.
  
• ... decided to download the game and liked it.
  
• ... started to read the critiques and found allegations of P2W, including a tiger ace vid.
  
• ... made his way to the steam store page again and got confused by the 3 available DLCs on the main page.
  
• ... did a Google search and found the DLC commander page. (EDIT: <- Probably this page)
  
• In his mind that pretty much confirmed all allegations. Especially as a link to that list was missing on the main store page.

Now guess if he bought the game.