video of how broken shocks are.

Back in 2CP era you cannot get that much shocks because Soviet needs to get a crapload of cons (or other stuff) before reaching 2CP, and Ostheer can already dig in with enough units, shocks can't bring that much impact.

I have no problems with the idea of shocks hitting the field at 2 cps
Besides, what number of shocks do you consider 'many'?

Only thing that reliable counter shocks well are snipers and flamers HT, and both of them are expensive glass cannon that a single little micro mistake can costs you a game, while the Soviet player just need to click a doctrine, calls shock and right click beside any dudes he wants to kill, with extreme durability, that is totally unfair and not fun to play against.
...
But now, they arrived too early and facerape the whole Ostheer T1 before they can bring out counters.

I think the whole idea of countering shocks is not allowing your opponent to chose engagements, and doing that yourself. Stall the game, wait for counters and use the fact that they dont have AT infantry to make a comeback. In my experience, MG bunkers at cutoff/fuel with inf/mortar support help a great deal.

So yeah, let's move shocks to 2cps, but I really don't want to see powerful German infantry run uncountered in the late game (vet3 gren blobs vs rifles/rangers, anyone?), so IMO nerfing the shocks is a horrible idea.

Rangers are never that durable unless they are vet 2 or above

Rangers are never that durable unless they are vet 2 or above

But Grenadiers have only rifles and KcH have only 3 model in squad.

They should fix Shock troops in that way:
If they come at 1CP... start with 1.5 armor and then make them get original armor + buff at vet2.
If they come at 3cp... let them come with high armor.

It's mad atm how it is: they start with that high armor, and if they reach vet2 they get a 30%-40% armor buff.

It's mad atm how it is: they start with that high armor, and if they reach vet2 they get a 30%-40% armor buff.

vet2 .. +20% Armor

They should fix Shock troops in that way:
If they come at 1CP... start with 1.5 armor and then make them get original armor + buff at vet2.
If they come at 3cp... let them come with high armor.

It's mad atm how it is: they start with that high armor, and if they reach vet2 they get a 30%-40% armor buff.

or they could just get put back to 2cp where no one had any problems with them.

Aradan, my state was about increasing armor at vet2 on a unit that already have a high armor...

Aradan, my state was about increasing armor at vet2 on a unit that already have a high armor...

Look at vet2 Panther.

Nobody want 1CP Shock. In next patch it will be OK. Another players dont have problems deal with this unit. Problem is early hit on battlefield and this will be solved.

Don't compare the amount of vet needed to get the panther Vet2 with the vet needed for Shocktrops to get vet 2.

They should keep balancing more often, atm they are delaying it too much (not this fix, i mean everything) there are a lot of known issues that could be fixed in a moment thanks to steam that automatically update the game.

Shocks need to go to 2 CP and 1.5 armor.

They're way too braindead of a unit right now, as this video shows.

Shocks need to go to 2 CP and 1.5 armor.

They're way too braindead of a unit right now, as this video shows.

This. Braindead is the word, good job.

Shocks need to go to 2 CP and 1.5 armor.

They're way too braindead of a unit right now, as this video shows.

Don't forget the cost cut to 360 as well.

Shocks need to go to 2 CP and 1.5 armor.

They're way too braindead of a unit right now, as this video shows.

Do you even play this game?

The video the OP delivered () displays 5 shocks dying in 13 seconds, and the last one escaping due to
- the OP not sending his PGrens after the retreating shocks (why btw? They were right there).

I fail to see how that makes them broken, sorry.

I didnt chase my pgrens after him because first of all i was like WTF??!?! irl so my micro failed and secondly you can hear there was a russian machinegun nearby.

Also i heard pgrens fire longer burst on the move but more accurate when standing still?

Don't forget the cost cut to 360 as well.

420*

Do you even play this game?

I do, why else would I be on this forum?

Also i heard pgrens fire longer burst on the move but more accurate when standing still?

This goes for all close combat infantry, it practically equates to the same DPS on the move as standing still.

1 Move shocks to 2cp.
2 Remove the shocks from the game they are to strong.
3 Soviets should be removed from the game. They are way to op.

420*



I do, why else would I be on this forum?



This goes for all close combat infantry, it practically equates to the same DPS on the move as standing still.

... lost cause

But Grenadiers have only rifles and KcH have only 3 model in squad.

3 models, but each could take 2 sniper shots, and that is without the vet3 hp boost.

Vet3 KCH were monsters who still had a bit of AT capability. And if you do manage somehow to lose a KCH squad, the new one you build will still be vet3. It was hard to vet rangers. It was rare to get rangers to vet2, let alone vet3, they cost more to build, more to reinforce (the equivalent of 90 mp for a KCH model since it is 6 to a squad) and you had to pay 100 munitions to make them anti-infantry. Their AT was only reliably good against light vehicles and the rear of StuG/StuHs.

I don't think it is a fair comparison at all.

It is much fairer to compare KCH to Shocks in roles and cost. But one difference is that prior to KCH Wehrmacht still had one, and sometimes 2, other choices of elite infantry which at vet2 already were much more durable than anything available to their opponents. The Soviets just don't have other elite AI infantry choices. And the all their elite infantry cost quite a bit of population.

I find this thread and topic beyond hilarious! Shocks are the one (count it one) soviet unit that isn't outperformed directly by its German counterpart and there is outrage by the German players.

Greens > cons
Pgrens > guards/penals
P4 >>> t34
Panther >> su85
Tiger >>> pick a unit
Panzerwerfer > katushka
German bunker > sov b... Oh wait sovs dont get one
German mortar > sov mortar (vet 1 they even out)
Do I need to keep going?
Wait. Just for lols .... Tiger ace >> actually that's not even worth filling out

Are you guys really that mad that you have to micro and actually play well against the one unit that the german equivilant isnt suoerior?? How do you think soviets feel when pgrens clown cons/guards/penals like they aren't even there? Do you think sovs like having to use 2-3x the manpower (if they don't have the doctrinal shocks) to counter pgrens?

I find this thread and topic beyond hilarious! Shocks are the one (count it one) soviet unit that isn't outperformed directly by its German counterpart and there is outrage by the German players.

Greens > cons
Pgrens > guards/penals
P4 >>> t34
Panther >> su85
Tiger >>> pick a unit
Panzerwerfer > katushka
German bunker > sov b... Oh wait sovs dont get one
German mortar > sov mortar (vet 1 they even out)
Do I need to keep going?
Wait. Just for lols .... Tiger ace >> actually that's not even worth filling out

Are you guys really that mad that you have to micro and actually play well against the one unit that the german equivilant isnt suoerior?? How do you think soviets feel when pgrens clown cons/guards/penals like they aren't even there? Do you think sovs like having to use 2-3x the manpower (if they don't have the doctrinal shocks) to counter pgrens?

I think you forgot to mention that the Soviet sniper squad is > German sniper.
CE > Pios (not that this has much of an impact on the game, but still the Soviet counterpart is stronger)

Guards and Pgrens fulfill different roles, can't really compare them. Aside from that fact Guards are almost indisputably the best infantry in the game. I'd certainly take them over Pgrens any day. They dominate light vehicles, they're still strong against German T3, their grenades give them the potential to win any infantry engagement, DPs are actually crazy good, button vehicle is possibly the most broken ability in the entire game, they have the best squad AI plus the best Vet bonuses (and they vet so quickly from shooting vehicles).

Vet 1 Soviet mortar is better than a German mortar ever will be, by far.

If you lose Su85s to Panthers, you're really doing it wrong.

Katyushas are probably stronger than Panzerwerfers, especially considering that they're in Soviet T4, which is significantly more viable than German T4 (at least in 1v1).

ISU-152 is by a mile the best tank in any mode bigger than 1v1 - and even in 1v1 I've had great success with it.

Of course all of this isn't taking into account how strong molotovs are, IL-2 strafe being batshit crazy, incendiary barrage being probably the second best off-map (only behind IL-2), Soviet mines being freaking amazing, demo charges 1 shotting squads all day, mark target being bonkers, Kv8s well... being Kv8s.

Anyways, in 1v1 Germans probably have a slight advantage this patch - although Sniper/Guard is still really hard to beat 1v1. In team game Soviets are just absurd with 1 CP Shocks/Guards/Snipers on the field simultaneously.