I bought the Counterattack Tactics commander with the last of my steam money (yes, I know, I'm a stinking filthy peasant D: ) and have...questionable thoughts about the KV-1. Coming in at 7 CP, I'm getting a Churchill / T-34/76 hybrid that comes out at the same time as the arguably much more (cost?) effective T-34/85 AND IS-2. And it costs more than a freaking Panzer IV!
Is it worth it? It works fairly well against the AI but most of the time I'm asked to go with the Mechanized Support commander (Guards, crappy ATG camo, and ISU-152) I use on my pub match Soviets.
KV-1 -- worth it?
26 Dec 2013, 19:25 PM
#1
Posts: 344
Pocketsize: "I can't wait till they add british to CoH: O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada."
26 Dec 2013, 19:52 PM
#2
Posts: 574
IS-2 is 9 CP, not 7.
KV-1s are good meat shields, though they could do with an armour boost at vet 2 rather than a speed boost, IMO.
Nice alternatives to T-34s, though. Definitely worth using.
KV-1s are good meat shields, though they could do with an armour boost at vet 2 rather than a speed boost, IMO.
Nice alternatives to T-34s, though. Definitely worth using.
26 Dec 2013, 19:58 PM
#3
Posts: 604
It costs 5 fuel more than a Panzer 4, doesn't require a tech requirement and beats it pretty easily 1v1. The T34/85 is about the same AT strength as a Panzer 4 (with 1 miss deciding who dies) and it has the same fuel cost (each) as the KV1.
Also remember that the KV1's armor is very strong and it has a lot of HP.
I really don't think it is too weak and I like playing the commander for either
no tech, shocks -> KV1s (risky); or T2+shocks -> KV1s.
By the time you can call them in you have enough fuel to get 2 of them (if you have enough manpower) and your enemy can't kill it with Panzer 4s, so he either needs a Panzer 4 + Stug (in which case you already have 2 or 3 of them) or he needs a Tiger.
However, this is for 1v1. From what you are writing I gather you mean team games. I don't know about its performance in team games but buffing it on that basis alone might make it too powerful in 1v1 (or too expensive if it also got a fuel cost increase to go with that) so I think changing it could break too much for too little gain.
Also remember that the KV1's armor is very strong and it has a lot of HP.
I really don't think it is too weak and I like playing the commander for either
no tech, shocks -> KV1s (risky); or T2+shocks -> KV1s.
By the time you can call them in you have enough fuel to get 2 of them (if you have enough manpower) and your enemy can't kill it with Panzer 4s, so he either needs a Panzer 4 + Stug (in which case you already have 2 or 3 of them) or he needs a Tiger.
However, this is for 1v1. From what you are writing I gather you mean team games. I don't know about its performance in team games but buffing it on that basis alone might make it too powerful in 1v1 (or too expensive if it also got a fuel cost increase to go with that) so I think changing it could break too much for too little gain.
26 Dec 2013, 20:06 PM
#4
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
Its quite ok even in teamgames. Since it can take a punishement it is a unit that can "tank". Draw alot of fire that otherwise would go into more "valuable" units. Thats how we use it, when we do (which tbh isnt all that often). To screen and soak damage for other units. Use it wisely and it can help support an attack.
26 Dec 2013, 20:13 PM
#5
Posts: 2561
It's really good against T3 tanks, especially good at beating the p4. It struggles against heavier tanks like the tiger and panther since it has a weak gun and can't even ram. In those cases, it's best to use it as a guard and spotter for SU-85s.
26 Dec 2013, 20:39 PM
#6
Posts: 299
the kv-1 is a great tank, it does well vs. all of t3 of the germans and can stand up to the heavier german tanks if you have them in numbers, plus the doc comes with the b-4 howi which is awesome. Had a high level 2v2 scrim the other day where I used the b-4 to kill 2 panthers.
The key thing is to pair the kv-1 with other forms of at as it's gun is eh, but is really good at soaking up damage. The kv-1 also has a habit of killing at guns, instead of decrewing them, if you end up in a fight with one.
The key thing is to pair the kv-1 with other forms of at as it's gun is eh, but is really good at soaking up damage. The kv-1 also has a habit of killing at guns, instead of decrewing them, if you end up in a fight with one.
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26 Dec 2013, 21:01 PM
#7
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
KV-1's are like an early KT from CoH1, it's slower than most of tanks in game, but they are more effective against infantry than T34-85/76's.
IMO, their cost is fairly adjusted to their fighting abilities
IMO, their cost is fairly adjusted to their fighting abilities
26 Dec 2013, 21:17 PM
#8
Posts: 337
Yes, they are very very cost effective.
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26 Dec 2013, 21:26 PM
#9
Posts: 379
In team games they are great for absorbing damage up front while your teams other AT guns and tanks dish out the hurt.
26 Dec 2013, 22:55 PM
#10
Posts: 344
Thanks for the feedback guys!
Boy I wish we could create our own docs...
FHQ
Guards
Recon Overflight
KV-1s
ML-20 Howitzers
GG
EDIT: What build order would you guys recommend if using the KV-1 as a 'centerpiece' of your strategy?
I Usually go Con/Con/Con/Molotovs/'Healing Ladies'/Sppt. Weapon Kampaneya/ZiS-3/82mm Mortar/Engie/whatever else I need from there on, with a Shock Troop thrown in at some point. I find Shocks to be of questionable value once tanks start hitting the field, as massed Cons can get the job done when focus firing, and can also AT nade tanks, build sandbags, and recrew/merge with support weapons.
Boy I wish we could create our own docs...
FHQ
Guards
Recon Overflight
KV-1s
ML-20 Howitzers
GG
EDIT: What build order would you guys recommend if using the KV-1 as a 'centerpiece' of your strategy?
I Usually go Con/Con/Con/Molotovs/'Healing Ladies'/Sppt. Weapon Kampaneya/ZiS-3/82mm Mortar/Engie/whatever else I need from there on, with a Shock Troop thrown in at some point. I find Shocks to be of questionable value once tanks start hitting the field, as massed Cons can get the job done when focus firing, and can also AT nade tanks, build sandbags, and recrew/merge with support weapons.
Pocketsize: "I can't wait till they add british to CoH: O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada."
26 Dec 2013, 23:15 PM
#11
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
I use something along the lines of:
2x conscripts
T2
maxim
Mortar
Medics
Shock troopers
AT nades
AT gun
2x KV1
203mm Howitzer
I don't get molotovs as I use the mortar to clear buildings and support weapons. It's a bit of a 'campy' build because you only have 3 infantry squads and a high amount of defensive support units. The build is very light on munitions so you have plenty of ammo to spam mines on your flanks.
Replay:
http://www.coh2.org/replays/12414/soviet-counter-attack-doctrine.
2x conscripts
T2
maxim
Mortar
Medics
Shock troopers
AT nades
AT gun
2x KV1
203mm Howitzer
I don't get molotovs as I use the mortar to clear buildings and support weapons. It's a bit of a 'campy' build because you only have 3 infantry squads and a high amount of defensive support units. The build is very light on munitions so you have plenty of ammo to spam mines on your flanks.
Replay:
http://www.coh2.org/replays/12414/soviet-counter-attack-doctrine.
26 Dec 2013, 23:55 PM
#12
Posts: 1617
I find it very usefull with Su-85s, it can absorb the damage while the Su-85s kill their tanks.
29 Dec 2013, 20:52 PM
#13
Posts: 1637
I find it very usefull with Su-85s, it can absorb the damage while the Su-85s kill their tanks.
This works. Also dont forget for mother russia. So you can bait armor to your zis guns with the kv1 then use fmr which is like having mark target on everything and it stacks with oorah making scripts run like a blitzing panther lol.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
29 Dec 2013, 21:05 PM
#14
Posts: 2561
This works. Also dont forget for mother russia. So you can bait armor to your zis guns with the kv1 then use fmr which is like having mark target on everything and it stacks with oorah making scripts run like a blitzing panther lol.
Also if you use oorah during the debuff after for mother russia the conscripts will move at normal speed and will still fire on the move.
29 Dec 2013, 21:07 PM
#15
Posts: 1637
Yikes thats an exploit. That should be fixed...
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
29 Dec 2013, 21:20 PM
#16
Posts: 2561
Yikes thats an exploit. That should be fixed...
No it's just the way they programmed infantry speeds. All the other debuffs still apply and it only lasts for the normal oorah duration. Oorah essentially give +1 speed stance buff and the debuff gives -1. So using oorah just puts the squad back at 0 for a while. Units at +1 speed don't fire which is why the units under for mother russia also don't fire on the move.
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