Germans are bad

Aren't you the same guy from the official forum who only plays AI skirmish and cry that everything is OP?

no sorry not me. im the guy that got banned for calling katitoff and his army of idiot soviet players for wanting the game to be easy mode soviets. i know you are one of those, you play germans you must be a neo nazi types so im not going to argue that crap with you so dont even try to say that bs. SOVIETS ARE EASY MODE OP RIGHT NOW. period. 1 cp shocks is a joke. 3 weeks to nerf the soviet factory is a joke while nerfing the ass grens to shit whithin 24 hours is a joke. paks are now the biggest joke. 6 man maxim and zis crews are a joke. stupid elite docs are a joke. this game is now a joke like all the idiot soviet whinegirls who have made it this way. its not even fun anymore to win cause like its already been said its the same thing over and over no one uses the other commanders anymore...

Getting T-34/85 before recent buff was pointless, now this tank is actually worth the price. You can see them coming, you can see which commander has been chosen thus you can prepare. Maybe there is a problem with German early game right now, I didn't play enough games to be able to say for sure but T-34/85 is not responsible for it.

@Vicking - now I know it's you.

t34/85s are perfect imo. The problem lies with Germans being very weak on antitank, specifically anti tank that doesn't cost fuel, or very high munitions.

Wow if germans are weak on AT i would hate to see what you clasify the soviets as. Free faust upgrade pak emplacement and the regular pak being way better than the zis. This thread has just gone from wtf to rofl.

Wow if germans are weak on AT i would hate to see what you clasify the soviets as. Free faust upgrade pak emplacement and the regular pak being way better than the zis. This thread has just gone from wtf to rofl.

But... that's what they are?

1. Lets see, anything armoured can get rammed, that's no good.
2. PaK 43 emplacement - that can get cleared easily by the multitude of arty the Sovs have.
3. Pak 40, that gets cleared easily (and misses a lot too).
4. Panzershreck - they're decent, but they're on 4 man PGs which, at that stage of the game, are pretty squishy
5. Elefant, good AT abilities but slow as hell.

Let's see what the Sovs have

1. Mark Target
2. 6 man AT nading oorahing meatshield
3. 6 man ZIS gun, which is strong, I like it better than the Pak40
4. T-34 going RAM (and being cheaper than all german armour, so its a Ramming machine when you need it to be)
5. SU-85 going lockdown, and it's pretty fast compared to the elefant.

So you see, although the Germans have arguably slightly better AT, in terms of effectiveness, the sovs actually are pretty good at AT as well. The only decent form of AT the germans have is the Panther/Tiger, which are pretty expensive.

hubewa, I like your style but you are too logical for some people who take a binary approach to balance

FWIW I agree completely and I play and enjoy both factions.

Mark is temporary muni intensive and doctrinal so no sts. It also can only really be used once an engagemenr due to cool down. For mother russia is way better as its on all non tank units and can be used against multiple targets. Why not bring that up lol.

All support weapons can be cleared. Use them at range. Using a zis at range wont make it any better its rof will always suck.

Same with shreks especially with the fire on the move penalty. Why do you think everyone is skipping tiers now. T34s with crap ai and low hps are sitting ducks. Just make them chase you and they will never hit you. And t4 never could do anything to shreks.

At nade is a fuel costing upgrade that has less pen less range against armor with higher hps and armor. In short compared to free mr faust it sucks.

T34 can ram which amoke green cover or simply moving can stop. Its also suicide 90% of the time. Tell you what why not let the germans have an ability that has a chance not a guarantee to diaable tanks that costs 85 fuel...

Germans lack some things but not at dps or ease of armor preservation. Thats akin to saying soviets lack ai...please..

Well rofl doesnt explain away 23-9 win rate in the "pro tournament.

How is a pak way better than a Zis? Zis have 6 men. That means they survive. Paks very rarely survive long enough to be useful. Not saying the zis is great or bad, but saying six men make it significantly harder to kill.

Pak emplacement really?. You have one shot with that and then it's arty fodder or satchel charged. Gone.

Free faust is trumped by oorah, 6 men squads and low anti infantry capability of German tanks. A gren has a few seconds to get off a faust on Soviet tanks and retreat or face certain death.Other than an ostwind, a conscript can chase a German tank across the map before retreating..Anyway

The main problem I believe is shreks and paks not being reliable as anti tank. If a pak can get into position and survive, it's not that bad of a unit. Losing the Vcoh camo vs even deadlier infantry and armor plus more arty, exposes it's most significant weakness, crew vulnerability.

Shreks have such a long aim time. Being on a vulnerable squad prone to dropping them makes them more of a liability then an asset. A shock trooper with a shrek=you lose.

Well JHeartless, since you were talking about doctrinals like the Pak 43, I was thinking you were also refering to doctrinals.

Here's a few things: Mark Target tends to confirm an armoured kill. If on anything, you should use it on vet 2 Pz 4s or Panthers or Tigers, all which are very expensive.

Using AT guns at the kind of ranges you can in this game doesn't help considering the amount of arty the Sovs have compared to the Germans.

Ram is a gimmick I think most people here do not like (myself included) but none the less, it is an AT ability. If you disable the gun and the engine (which get repaired last), you essentially disable the tank. This pretty much means if an enemy tank strays onto your territory, it can get rammed while you can repair it while the enemy tank tends to die.

I think VonMecha has covered most of the other stuff so yeah, leave it to him

First off the SNF faction win rate has little to nothing to do with lack of german anti tank. As far as devrewing build a halftrack if you cant keep your eeapon teams safe. You always have acess to them. Soviets do not. Or an hq bunker if you would prefer muni to fuel.

More survivabilty can be made up by better play. The insta gibs really are the only thing you cant do anything about. But like i said the germans are lacking something but unit performance is considerably better on the infantry and support teams department and in particular anti tank. The high soviet unit count is why ai pgrens have the most sustained dps in game. Sts have to stand still to perform near as well.

I thunk the biggest factor is relic discouragement of Soviet tech. Its expensive and offers very little reward where germany cant do the same as well. Why get penals when sts are better and allows T2? Why go t34 when skipping that building allows for 85s that cost the same if you count tech cost and are way better.

This allows the soviets to maintain key resource advantages. If teching was cheaper or more appealing then that particular advantage would fade. Outside of this i see no advantage to the soviet forces because at best the perform the same for cost and at worst they perform much worse for cost.

Well rofl doesnt explain away 23-9 win rate in the "pro tournament.

How is a pak way better than a Zis? Zis have 6 men. That means they survive. Paks very rarely survive long enough to be useful. Not saying the zis is great or bad, but saying six men make it significantly harder to kill.

Pak emplacement really?. You have one shot with that and then it's arty fodder or satchel charged. Gone.

Free faust is trumped by oorah,6 men squads, low anti infantry capability of German tanks. Where a gren has a few seconds to get off a faust on Soviet tanks and retreat or face certain death, other than an ostwind, a Conscript can chase a German tank across the map before retreating..Anyway

The main problem I believe is shreks and paks not being reliable as anti tank. If a pak can get into position and survive, it's not that bad of a unit. Losing the Vcoh camo vs even deadlier infantry and armor plus more arty exposes it's significant weakness, crew vulnerability.

Shreks have such a long aim time on a vulnerable squad prone to dropping them, makes them more of a liability then an asset. A shock trooper with a shrek=you lose.

+1 good luck trying to explain anything(no matter how right it is) to idiot sov whinegirls they just want easy mode wins.

First off the SNF faction win rate has little to nothing to do with lack of german anti tank. As far as devrewing build a halftrack if you cant keep your eeapon teams safe. You always have acess to them. Soviets do not. Or an hq bunker if you would prefer muni to fuel.

lol and then what when zis comes?

Germans have problems dealing with tanks?
Are we talking about the same game?
PaK being useless against tanks? Panzer Grenadiers not capable of killing tanks? I would swap Panzer Grenadiers with Guards every time. Shreck is the best weapon I can pick with my Conscripts. When I get one this unit becomes the most valuable unit in my army.

lol and then what when zis comes?

Wiking i will reply this one rime as i am having a coversation with non trolls.

Pro tip. Dont leave support teams alone. In the case of the ht. After the first shot you have almost 6 seconds to move.

I mean really....lol

Germans have problems dealing with tanks?
Are we talking about the same game?
PaK being useless against tanks? Panzer Grenadiers not capable of killing tanks? I would swap Panzer Grenadiers with Guards every time. Shreck is the best weapon I can pick with my Conscripts. When I get one this unit becomes the most valuable unit in my army.

Paks are not useless vs tanks. Like I said if they can be pretty decent, but they don't have survivablity. Shreks are great on squads with oorah, body armor, and six men. Especially when you are fighting tanks with low anti infantry capability. Turn that around and you are using them with 4 man squads , fighting armor that can wipe them before they get a second salvo off. Shreks are the best at in the game, for Soviets.

Paks are not useless vs tanks. Like I said if they can be pretty decent, but they don't have survivablity. Shreks are great on squads with oorah, body armor, and six men. Especially when you are fighting tanks with low anti infantry capability. Turn that around and you are using them with 4 man squads , fighting armor that can wipe them before they get a second salvo off. Shreks are the best at in the game, for Soviets.

Sorry mate, but sometimes when I read your posts I have the feeling we play different game. You can say a lot about Germans but not that they're lacking anti tank capabilities.

Vonmecha you grossly overestimate soviet tanks ai. The real threat to supported shreks are kv8s kv2 and is2. Shreks arent meant to solo tanks but to do burst dps. Fire and move. T34 gives chase then faust him. Paks have one of the highest at dps in the entire game and at vet 1 they can button. They arent good they are par exellence. 340 mp do you expect an elephant? This is why a zis has more men. It needs ti stay on the field in harms way much longer for the same gain. Paks are just plain boss. If you cant kick armored ass with those i dont know what to tell you...you probably wouldnt care for shocks either...m

Germans have weak AT. Bigest joke this year. :-)

Dont be Company of Whiners. This comunity is you family and dont flame. Try play both side, then try write something about ballance.

Germans have weak AT. Bigest joke this year. :-)

Dont be Company of Whiners. This comunity is you family and dont flame. Try play both side, then try write something about ballance.

I don't think anyone was saying that Germans have bad AT, but the soviets certainly have it better.

Anyway, this coming from a soviet whineboy who clearly has wanted Germans to be UP, kinda funny, but sadly, what's happening of late. (Asking ppl to try to play both sides with your playercard... heh)

Just so you know, I've managed to keep my Germans/Sovs equal when I've played.

EDIT: Here's the thing, if nothing can stop 5-6 T-34-85s (not even two tigers), then its a problem with German AT. Cheaper mines are severely needed for Germans.

I don't think anyone was saying that Germans have bad AT, but the soviets certainly have it better.



EDIT: Here's the thing, if nothing can stop 5-6 T-34-85s (not even two tigers), then its a problem with German AT. Cheaper mines are severely needed for Germans.

You are mistaken. Germans have better anti tank capabillities. Period.


EDIT:
This game is not a good example as Barton got outplayed in that game. And yes, even 2 Tigers shouldn't win with ods being 2 - 6, especially when you watch this game it was usualy 1 Tiger against 4 - 6 T-34/85.