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russian armor

Germans are bad

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27 Dec 2013, 02:51 AM
#41
avatar of ardenx

Posts: 19

Panther - best tank in the game
pz4 - best multi-purpose tank in the game
Elefant - OP like hell
Tiger ACE - LMFAO a joke how OP it is


Oh QQ. German armor was the most most feared in all the war. It should be reflected in the game. The mirrored factions that every "OP" balance whiner secretly lusts for would make the game borrrring.

There are these things called mines in the game. Soviet faction has the cheapest ones. Coincidence? Lay some down, build a ZiS3 or two, use the combined Soviet arms at your disposal. Tiger Ace makin' u mad? Spam a T34 or two and ram the S.O.B. and GG.

Now if you'll excuse me, I won't be able to take any more "Germans are OP" posts seriously until I at least stop seeing all the biggest killstreaks on the ladders being Soviets instead of Germans.
27 Dec 2013, 02:59 AM
#42
avatar of sir muffin

Posts: 531

herrtin is becoming the next nullist
MVGame
27 Dec 2013, 09:46 AM
#43
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Dec 2013, 02:51 AMardenx

Now if you'll excuse me, I won't be able to take any more "Germans are OP" posts seriously until I at least stop seeing all the biggest killstreaks on the ladders being Soviets instead of Germans.


In team games 70-80% in lobby are germans. In team games are germans easy way.

I dont need something nerf or boost. I have fun from only germas players starts every day new topics about nerfing another soviet unit.
27 Dec 2013, 10:05 AM
#44
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

Not sure why people immediately equate people wanting to play Germans to them being easy. Women who wear fancy high shoes don't wear them cause they are the easiest shoe to wear. Wearing robes is much easier than wearing a suit and tie. If it was true Germans were the easy faction, then this would mean Soviet wins would be rare, especially in tournaments, in which Soviets have clearly dominated...all of them.
27 Dec 2013, 11:00 AM
#45
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

Not sure why people immediately equate people wanting to play Germans to them being easy. Women who wear fancy high shoes don't wear them cause they are the easiest shoe to wear. Wearing robes is much easier than wearing a suit and tie. If it was true Germans were the easy faction, then this would mean Soviet wins would be rare, especially in tournaments, in which Soviets have clearly dominated...all of them.


in TEAM GAMES
27 Dec 2013, 13:08 PM
#46
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

I'm sort of torn. My problem is that, unlike VCoH, CoH2 doesn't reflect the *vibe* or *feel* of the armies.

Why is it that the most Soviet-feeling spammable infantry belong to a German Commander (Ostruppen) ? Why is it that the German armour and infantry doesn't have the sort of utility you might expect in the mid-game?

Why does the Soviet Tier One suck so badly, I never see penal troops?

Why is SNF dominated by this dull call-in meta (and why are you 'pros' addicted to the same three maps, it's like freaking Groundhog Day at the moment)?

I play and like both factions, but agree that the more players you have the more OP the Russians can be if abused 'properly.'

TL:DR, stuff is busted but it's busted pretty equally. I don't expect hyper-realism, or even realism but I expect verisimilitude of sorts.

27 Dec 2013, 13:39 PM
#47
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

@Belt fed

Exactly my reaction when I saw Ostruppen commander... seriously?

And call in spam is pretty dull as well...

As Inverse has repeated many times, the strategy in this game tends to dry up pretty quickly.
27 Dec 2013, 13:39 PM
#48
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

I'm sort of torn. My problem is that, unlike VCoH, CoH2 doesn't reflect the *vibe* or *feel* of the armies.

Why is it that the most Soviet-feeling spammable infantry belong to a German Commander (Ostruppen) ? Why is it that the German armour and infantry doesn't have the sort of utility you might expect in the mid-game?

Why does the Soviet Tier One suck so badly, I never see penal troops?

Why is SNF dominated by this dull call-in meta (and why are you 'pros' addicted to the same three maps, it's like freaking Groundhog Day at the moment)?

I play and like both factions, but agree that the more players you have the more OP the Russians can be if abused 'properly.'

TL:DR, stuff is busted but it's busted pretty equally. I don't expect hyper-realism, or even realism but I expect verisimilitude of sorts.



It is true.

Infantry spam can do only germans with ostrupens. Germans tanks are mobile and soviets must stay in distance. Relic never discover east front.
27 Dec 2013, 13:44 PM
#49
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

herrtin is becoming the next nullist
MVGame


We actually need nullist IMO to put some ppl in their place.

Just saying.

I won't give any names, but some of the posts I've read are just ridiculous. I can only imagine nullist leaping onto them atm.

The main problem with armour battles, esp things like Paks, Elefants, stugs etc is that it's pretty much RNG everywhere. Which is stupid, no-one likes to watch a fight on RNG.

You know if teching is not required in a strategy game something is horribly wrong.
27 Dec 2013, 13:55 PM
#50
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

But the quality and effectiveness of german units were much higher. In this game most of the German units can't even compete one on one. Plus the fact they are outnumbered and grossly under supplied(muntions).


Most german units can't even compete one on one? What game are you playing?

Also, the fact that the germans have so many munitions upgrades to bolster the effectiveness of their units is not a downside. German units already compete with their soviet counterparts without munition upgrades, upgrading them just makes them better at the cost of having less munition available for mines/grenades/airstrikes.
27 Dec 2013, 14:53 PM
#51
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

I don´t see the big problem here. What´s so bad about increasing the German tanks gun-range and making their frontal armor better? To compensate, their side armor could be decreased. This way flanking is rewarded and the game doesn´t feel as gaga.

Right now Russian 85mms beating Panthers - even when parked directly in front of the Panther - are ridiculous.
27 Dec 2013, 15:05 PM
#52
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419



What game are you playing?

One where a brief survey of the Snf posted replay results , shows a 23-9 win rate for Soviets.
27 Dec 2013, 15:12 PM
#53
avatar of BeltFedWombat
Patrion 14

Posts: 951

Yes, just watch OMGPop's rampant T34/85 abuse. Did Relic really intend players in top-flight 1v1 to be able to spam seven at once?
27 Dec 2013, 16:15 PM
#54
avatar of mariens

Posts: 90



haha good one
27 Dec 2013, 16:55 PM
#55
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

The germans are not bad. People just need to realize one thing: The soviets won the war through massively outnumbering the germans.


No, the Soviets won by being better

Numbers did not after all avail them anything in 1941.


This idea was understandable when the major source on the War in the East was the self-serving memoirs of German Generals, but we have had access to more balanced sources since then.

We are not required to believe the traditional narrative that:

"We were vastly outnumbered but nevertheless the German Army won a string of victories from Moscow all the way to Berlin because we are so awesome, and we would still have won had it not been for that meddling Hitler"
27 Dec 2013, 17:00 PM
#56
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1



No, the Soviets won by being better

Numbers did not after all avail them anything in 1941.


This idea was understandable when the major source on the War in the East was the self-serving memoirs of German Generals, but we have had access to more balanced sources since then.

We are not required to believe the traditional narrative that:

"We were vastly outnumbered but nevertheless the German Army won a string of victories from Moscow all the way to Berlin because we are so awesome, and we would still have won had it not been for that meddling Hitler"


The traditional narrative you describe is there for a reason. Even late in 1945 the Germans were organizing effective counter attacks that the Soviet army was struggling to defeat. The German army was a better unit, and would have won the war for Germany had Hitler not intervened multiple times at critical moments. In addition, the Soviet army did win by brute strength, tactics were difficult to teach to mostly illiterate peasants.
27 Dec 2013, 17:07 PM
#57
avatar of cataclaw

Posts: 523



The traditional narrative you describe is there for a reason. Even late in 1945 the Germans were organizing effective counter attacks that the Soviet army was struggling to defeat. The German army was a better unit, and would have won the war for Germany had Hitler not intervened multiple times at critical moments. In addition, the Soviet army did win by brute strength, tactics were difficult to teach to mostly illiterate peasants.


The biggest issue is that Germany went into a two front war, and thus it's logistics got hammered and weapons, ammo and tanks had issues getting out of Germany to the Soldiers needing them. For example, only every 1 of 3 StG's that got produced (including MP44 w/e) reached the frontline.
27 Dec 2013, 17:44 PM
#58
avatar of Basilone

Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2



The traditional narrative you describe is there for a reason. Even late in 1945 the Germans were organizing effective counter attacks that the Soviet army was struggling to defeat. The German army was a better unit, and would have won the war for Germany had Hitler not intervened multiple times at critical moments. In addition, the Soviet army did win by brute strength, tactics were difficult to teach to mostly illiterate peasants.
The Americans with the Brits would have been capable of beating the Germans without the Soviets if they also weren't fighting on another front (Japan). Just because the Americans didn't mobilize as many troops as Germany doesn't mean they weren't available if needed. The Soviets made such a huge impact because they were only fighting one front and practically committed its entire male population to the war effort, many other countries could have done the same thing (probably better) under similar circumstances.
27 Dec 2013, 18:13 PM
#59
avatar of PaRaNo1a
Patrion 26

Posts: 600

The Americans with the Brits would have been capable of beating the Germans without the Soviets if they also weren't fighting on another front (Japan). Just because the Americans didn't mobilize as many troops as Germany doesn't mean they weren't available if needed. The Soviets made such a huge impact because they were only fighting one front and practically committed its entire male population to the war effort, many other countries could have done the same thing (probably better) under similar circumstances.


Let`s say the truth Basi, the Americans didn`t want to join the war because it wasn`t their war. They only joined when it was sure that the Nazi Germany is going to loose because of the 2 fronts. They saw the oportunity to kill 2 birds with 1 stone (Nazi and Communists) let them fight inflict as much damage as possible to each other so the great USA could bring democracy to them :)
27 Dec 2013, 18:24 PM
#60
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

Let`s say the truth Basi, the Americans didn`t want to join the war because it wasn`t their war. They only joined when it was sure that the Nazi Germany is going to loose because of the 2 fronts. They saw the oportunity to kill 2 birds with 1 stone (Nazi and Communists) let them fight inflict as much damage as possible to each other so the great USA could bring democracy to them :)


This is too broad. There were people in the US who wished to remain out of the war, but there were plenty who did wish to go to war. Roosevelt was an ardent war supporter, and before the US even joined the war many US citizens were fighting the Axis.

Also it was certainly not clear in winter 1941 that Germany would lose the war. That was only made clear in the winter of 1942.
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