Relic, can you finally ...

... start raising fuel cost and lowering MP costs on tanks?
The game is shit enough at it is, but you are actively making it more shit by the patch. This is completely uneccessary. If your design team would just play the game once in a full moon we could have a significantly better game.

Very informative OP, quite an indepth explanation, great reasoning. MVGame

Very informative OP, quite an indepth explanation, great reasoning. MVGame

What is there to reason? In a game like this with a constant flow of a resource (MP) I can build x units in a given time t. If armor cost is of the same order as that of infantry, and armor is also significantly better than infantry, there is little reason to fill your "slots" with anything but armor. Infantry is reduced to a sideshow, with the sole purpose of acquiring the resources neccessary for your armor.

Then relic really goes out of their way to make the game even more terrible by reducing the fuel costs on armor *again*, so that they start rolling over infantry so early that there is little point in setting up flanks on MGs or whatever with your infantry. You simply don't have the time for it. The only viable way to play the game is build MGs, entrench, wait for tanks. Who gets them first rolls over the other.

This isn't exactly news. The game has been like this since that one (in hindsight) awful beta patch. But apparently this is exactly how Relic wants the game to be, because subsequent patches have made the situation worse and worse, with Relic directly cutting fuel costs on tanks at least twice.

Explained in a more practical manner: 20 games of opening up sniper first (just how ridiculous is that???), keeping infantry expenses at a minimum, start spamming t34 -> above 70% win rate.
20 games of opening up conscripts (accompanied by an infantry heavy commander), lose almost every single game.
The same is true playing ostheer, of course. With the caveat that german infantry actually have a couple of tools that keep them somewhat useful mid- to lategame, which is why OH is generally more resilient against user input errors.

The game is awfully boring to play right now, I can usually tell within the first couple of minutes how it is going to play out.

Modelling CoH2's armor MP costs after those of CoH1, when that game has a variable MP flow, increasing towards mid/late, is the single biggest design mistake relic made, and they keep on worsening the situation with every patch. It boggles the mind, really just like Relic doesn't even know their own game. And hey! I really have to quote myself here:

Relic, start playing your own damn game!

Due to the constant MP flow, Armor must cost a *fraction* of infantry MP costs and need their fuel costs increased. In this case it would actually be neccessary to create and maintaind a sizeable infantry presence on the field, since it would actually take a noticeable timeframe within the game to get the fuel for a tank and you would need to defend the fuel posts. You could play both infantry and armor and not be forced to decide between them (which is really a non-issue, armor always wins due to its power, d'oh).
Then of course the instagib bullshit needs to be removed, but that is another matter alltogether and for another topic at another time.

I disagree, the last patch was a significant improvement imo. If you loose with conscripts your infantry micro is probably shit.

Explained in a more practical manner: 20 games of opening up sniper first (just how ridiculous is that???), keeping infantry expenses at a minimum, start spamming t34 -> above 70% win rate.
20 games of opening up conscripts (accompanied by an infantry heavy commander), lose almost every single game.

Thats your own personal experience which isnt representative at all.

Another useless thread...congratz !

Well, there is some truth in his words.

Actually you can only fight tanks with tanks.
AT infantry is expensive and die too fast, and ATguns underperform heavily. Tank spamming is the meta in this game currently.

I miss vCoH gameplay were you could win as american without making Shermans at all.

If you loose with conscripts your infantry micro is probably shit.

Please just stop posting.

Actually you can only fight tanks with tanks.

That wasn't something I put into my OP but yes, that is a completely logical consequence when armor is blow for blow more efficient at everything that infantry does and also costs just as much.

Well, there is some truth in his words.

Actually you can only fight tanks with tanks.
AT infantry is expensive and die too fast, and ATguns overperform heavily. Tank spamming is the meta in this game currently.

I miss vCoH gameplay were you could win as american without making Shermans at all.

I hope you meant underperform....

Please just stop posting.

Nope sry I like this forum. I just cant understand why people are always bashing the game. I guess youre a low-mid skill player who is mad because he lost a game ? Look at youre own gameplay and try to improve your conscript micro instead of blaming relic ! Im going to stop arguing now btw

Insults: 6/10
Rage: 7/10
Ilogic: 6/10
Butthurt: 8/10

GJ! Your trollcard is improving!

All that was missing, was threatening to leave the game.

I think the main reason it was mandatory to have tanks in vcoh is at guns. They were as cheap as an inf squad, they built quick and had punch. The dynamic of costly, slow to build at guns in coh2 makes fielding them , especially in an emergency quite difficult. The patch helped by making them a little cheaper but 320 imo is still too much.
I don't know why they were made harder to field, but it's obvious the outcome is at guns not actually being a hard counter to tanks. Which means it's almost mandatory that you have tanks to fight tanks in coh2.

I hope you meant underperform....

Yes, you're right, I wrote it wrong.

Edited.

I think the main reason it was mandatory to have tanks in vcoh is at guns. They were as cheap as an inf squad, they built quick and had punch. The dynamic of costly, slow to build at guns in coh2 makes fielding them , especially in an emergency quite difficult. The patch helped by making them a little cheaper but 320 imo is still too much.
I don't know why they were made harder to field, but it's obvious the outcome is at guns not actually being a hard counter to tanks. Which means it's almost mandatory that you have tanks to fight tanks in coh2.

To add up that they are expensive, they are also slow and vulnerable to everything that isn't a armor vehicle coming straight ahead. Sending an ATgun to the frontline can take several minutes, just to be intercepted midway by a enemy unit, killed and stolen.

Is much more safe to invest resources in tanks to counter enemy armor because they are not as vulnerable, also they're more useful and only slighty more expensive in terms of mp, and to sum up, in the soviet case it only can be produced in the T2 building which for some players is not viable in their build.

It's not strange then than mid and lategame is a constant spam of armor vehicles for both sides, setting aside infantry only for capping duties (not even necessary for soviets).

Insults: 6/10
Rage: 7/10
Ilogic: 6/10
Butthurt: 8/10

GJ! Your trollcard is improving!

All that was missing, was threatening to leave the game.

I laughed my ass off

I wish he would do more than threaten and just leave. You can almost always immediately write off any thread that begins "Relic, ..."

I wish he would do more than threaten and just leave. You can almost always immediately write off any thread that begins "Relic, ..."

Where do I "threaten" and then, where do I "threaten to leave"? Exact quote, complete with reference, time and date.

IMA POSTING IN THE USELESS THREAD!

Insults: 6/10
Rage: 7/10
Ilogic: 6/10
Butthurt: 8/10

GJ! Your trollcard is improving!

All that was missing, was threatening to leave the game.

AHAHAHA too true

Tbh, the fuel costs for tanks are already quite high. In a 1v1, it's not so easy to spam tanks.

If you keep them alive (which most good players can do) then power to you.

IMA POSTING IN THE USELESS THREAD!

Oh wait this thread isn't serious?

Tbh, the fuel costs for tanks are already quite high.

Great. Except that is not was this thread is about.

@raw insulting relic because you are upset isn't going to make them listen to you.

@the rest of you guys on topic perhaps? less insulting eachother if the thread isn't good don't respond. The old addage: If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it, perhaps?

i need to make this t-shirt hell coh2.org should sell it. (id buy like 5.)

"I came for an argument the other day/night and a discussion broke out."
-WiFiDi

for all you non-Canadians out there. (and/or killjoys)
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