PTRS as an optional upgrade on Guards

I would like to see Guards spawn with 6 rifles for 320 or 340 MP and have a 30-60 Munitions upgrade to their PTRS rifles. I think the added mobility and dps vs. infantry could be a great boon and add some strategic depth. We all love options right!

I would also like to be able to rearrange my "available commanders" in the army customizer menu to cluster them together. ex: put all of my commanders with Guards, or with Tiger call-ins in the same area.

I would like this if:

They start of with normal rifles, but the upgraded PTRS performs better than the current PTRS.

or

They start with SVT rifles, and they have a normal ptrs upgrade

I don't see any reason for such a change.

If you want better DPS, penals is what your looking for. Penals and guards work nice together.

Guards have more armor and a grenade instead of satchels. I think being able to go pure rifles with them would parallel PGrens and Shreck upgrades in a nice way.

I support this idea. But wouldn't they just replace all other infantry in your BO if you could do this?

I wish Relic also would look at the guard lmg. This thing deserves a small buff.

I just think guards wont overperform vs infantry when their alternative is Shocks and you have access to penals, which really have quite high DPS.

I think DP needs a DPS increase.
Its very lackluster for cost.

However, as related to PTRS on Guards, Guards are actually "cheaper" than they should be in terms of conventional cost equivalencies (but thats OK, I will elaborate), due to several factors:
-Guard are a 6man 1.5 armor unit
-Guard have light AT, essentially for free, compared to the above.
-Guard are not building related. Especially now that they are 1CP call-in, they are extremely cheap (in terms of requiring no building) and also very early.
-The Nade part is asymmetrically aligned with PGrens, and included in cost. Guard and PGren Nade are, in almost all ways, identical.

What you are suggesting, is unworkable.

They are already cheaper than they should be (which is ok).
The PTRS they carry indirectly reduces their effective AI, and that is one of the reasons that helps justify their cheapness.

DP... dps increase?

Guards are the only mulirole unit in the game which can be spammed and remain optimal in all situations.

With the vet rework, grens don't get an armour bonus and lose to guards. There is no reason for the soviet player to not spam guards. They shut down the entire t2 ost lineup (pgrens included) and are cost efficient against the non support units out of t1. The worst part is, positional advantage means nothing vs guards, since PTRS rifles negate cover bonus.

They're a jack of all trades, which is against the spirit of coh. If the player choses to upgrade DP, they have chosen an AI role for their guards and should lose a PTRS, just like pgrens lose 2 mp44's once shrecked up for their AT role.

It could work if they had to pay full manpower for their base stats, which it's clear that they are not doing atm, because since you do not pay munitions for the AT rifles their imaginable cost have to be factored into the manpower price.

A very soft brained comparison to grens shows the small difference in EHP - 80 x 4 x 1.5 vs 80 x 6 x 1.5... bascially one could argue that a rifles only guard squad would be paying 133% as much for their 150% of grens surviviability.

I'm not sure how the gren rifles and the guard rifles measure up. Do guarsd carry the same rifles as the conscripts, and is this rifle equal to the gren rifle? In that case they would be reasonably priced at 360 manpower for a "vanilla" guard squad. If not, it's hard to say.

I think relic's design on this unit is a bit of like the coh 1ranger, but the thompsons rangers had was a was actually a very strong AI weapon. Maybe they simply dont want the overlap of lmg only guards completely overlapping the function of shocks or conscripts or adding what would be a defensive six man soviet grenadier.

I'm not sure how the gren rifles and the guard rifles measure up.

The 4 Guard Rifles are just a tiny smidgeon beneath Gren Rifle DPS.

About 0.1 DPS less at all ranges, per rifle.

So they are much better than Con rifle, and almost (by 0.1DPS difference at all ranges) equal to Gren rifle.
Atleast in total DPS, though reload, dmg, accuracy etc may be different, since total DPS figures are so immensely complex and I cba to sort through all that.

So yes, those 4 Guard Rifles are already capable of facing Grens.
Add to that the 2 PTRS carrying additional 2 model 1.5 armor survival factor and bobs your uncle.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEpuSHcxNko1VGVFYjczYXpFZWhqOHc#gid=0

PS: Friended on Steam. Get in here and lets sort this stuff out on voice.

I think DP needs a DPS increase.
Its very lackluster for cost.

However, as related to PTRS on Guards, Guards are actually "cheaper" than they should be in terms of conventional cost equivalencies (but thats OK, I will elaborate), due to several factors:
-Guard are a 6man 1.5 armor unit
-Guard have light AT, essentially for free, compared to the above.
-Guard are not building related. Especially now that they are 1CP call-in, they are extremely cheap (in terms of requiring no building) and also very early.
-The Nade part is asymmetrically aligned with PGrens, and included in cost. Guard and PGren Nade are, in almost all ways, identical.

What you are suggesting, is unworkable.

They are already cheaper than they should be (which is ok).
The PTRS they carry indirectly reduces their effective AI, and that is one of the reasons that helps justify their cheapness.

Once you put it that way it makes sense, I guess the DP-28 needs a DPS buff.

Once you put it that way it makes sense, I guess the DP-28 needs a DPS buff.

Have a look at DP stats here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEpuSHcxNko1VGVFYjczYXpFZWhqOHc#gid=0
Its the "DPS including Reload" column you want to look at.

Remember to multiply the stat by x2, cos you get two per upgrade.
(and ofc to subtract x2 Mosin stat from the units total DPS, cos their weapons are replaced)

One DP is roughly equivalent of one Shock PPSH.
For its cost, its really quite shitty.

Have a look at DP stats here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEpuSHcxNko1VGVFYjczYXpFZWhqOHc#gid=0
Its the "DPS including Reload" column you want to look at.

Remember to multiply the stat by x2, cos you get two per upgrade.
(and ofc to subtract x2 Mosin stat from the units total DPS, cos their weapons are replaced)

One DP is roughly equivalent of one Shock PPSH.
For its cost, its really quite shitty.

Remember when you had to upgrade shock's ppsh for 60 munitions. At that damage, the cost should be 20 munitions lol.