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12ocky's Christmas Wishlist: Changes, proposals, ideas ....

8 Dec 2013, 01:24 AM
#1
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

Well because the elite mod thread is a mess with everything being discussed, I suggest we'd open more different topics, to be able to discuss each topic in different sections instead of just hopping from each topic to an other.

Ironically enough I'm just gonna write a huge ass post. Brace yourselves! Wall of Text incoming.
I've been adapting my current balance list on most of the elite mod changes (that weren't my ideas already) and things I can conclude (and also can't).
An example is I always wanted to have Tank depot at 300mp instead of 350. It felt good in the last beta and it felt right in COHO. But i'm not going to make this change because:
a) Rifle reinforce changes really already feel good (I could be wrong though because there was no high level play displayed yet)
b) Tank units are buffed M10 misfire fixed, Croc buff, smoke etc ...

Okay, so 2 big objectives on this list are a look into straightening out some late game upgrades (buffs mostly), and an attempt to make the mortar really viable. Other objectives are you know, buffing the weak and toning down the ones with steriods (sniper).


Christmas wishlist without Feedback (Down below you can find the version WITH feedback:

US:

Doctrinal:
* Bombing Run reworked
* Airborne squad reinforce cost from 45 to 40 (0.72x to 0.64x)
* Rangers reinforce cost from 45 to 42 (from 0.75x to 0.7x)
* Rangers veterancy requirements to 8/16/32 from 12/24/44
* Rangers now have Ranger M1 Garand Rifle, instead of standard M1 Garand Rifle
* Off map combat group can now have M3 Quad in group 3 of the lottery, 30 cal and Mortar removed in group 2
* Howitzer Veterancy reworked
Vet 1 10% reduction to scatter angle
Vet 2 10 second reduction to ability cooldown
Vet 3 0.85x Reload
* Pershing HVAP (upgun) AoE distance long from 3 to 5, medium from 1.5 to 2.5, Short from 0.5 to 1
* Raid now costs 1 CP less
* Calliope price reduced from 650mp to 625mp
* Calliope veterancy lvl 2: bonus max scatter 0.9x

Tier0
* Engineer vet requirements lowered to 8/14/26
* Grease gun moving burst from 1x to 1.5x
* Demo Charge research time from 60s to 40s
* American Observation post build time set from 50s to 30s
* MG Nest Modifiers vs Suppressed targets fixed: accuracy vs suppressed from 0.5x to 1x; damage vs suppressed from 0.67x to 1x; suppression vs suppressed from 0.55x to 0.5x
* MG Nest Modifiers vs Pinned targets: Damage vs pinned from 0.67x to 0.25x

Tier1
* Jeep 30 cal damage from 5 to 6
* Jeep damage modifier vs bike from 0.6x to 0.5x
* Jeep max reload from 6s to 6.5s
* Jeep 30 cal priority vs Snipers increased to 100
* Riflemen reinforce cost from 27 to 24 (from 0.6x to 0.53334x)

Tier2
* American HMG reinforce cost from 0.5x to 0.35x, reinforce time 0.9x
* American Mortar team squad size from 3 to 4 (m1 carbine on the extra man)
* American Mortar reinforce cost from 0.5x to 0.4x, reinforce time 0.9x
* American Mortar veterancy requirements from 8/16/32 to 8/14/26
* Mortar damage from 20 to 21.5
* Mortar damage vs Airborne armor from 1x to 2x
* Mortar damage vs Garrisoned units from 0.75x to 1x
* Springfield Sniper rifle reload from 3s to 5s
* Springfield Sniper rifle cooldown modifier short range from 0.75x to 0.85x
* American Sniper upkeep cost from 9.6 to 12.8
* Snipers now have negative zeal

Tier3
* Vet 1 M8 and M3 extra bonus: 0.9x reload
* M8 37mm damage vs Marder III Geschutz) armor from 2x to 1x
* T17 penetration from 0.4/0.6/1 to 0.5/0.75/1
* M3 build time from 40s to 35s
* Quad accuracy increment from 1.02 to 1.04
* 57mm anti tank gun build time from 67s to 60s
* Give US 57mm ATG some added defensive veterancy bonuses (also for AB version)
Vet 1 Received accuracy 0.95x
Vet 2 Max Health 1.1x
Vet 3 Received damage 0.9x

Tier4
* All US tanks get extra 1.1x acceleration bonus at vet 1 (including Pershing Calliope)
* Sherman 76mm Reload reduced from 7s to 6s
* Sherman 76mm AoE distance short from 0.75 to 0.25
* Sherman M2HB machine gun upgrade cost from 75m to 50m
* Sherman Smoke research cost lower from 150mp25fuel to 75mp25fuel
* Sherman Smoke use munitions cost lowered from 50 to 25
* Sherman Smoke now applies to the Croc Sherman aswell
* Sherman Crocodile health increased from 636hp to 700hp
* Sherman Crodocile can now upgrade the M2HB machine gun
* Sherman Crocodile ready aim time removed, projectile speed fixed
* Sherman bulldozer cost from 75m to 50m
* Sherman crab mine flail cost reduced from 75muni to 50muni
* Sherman crab mine flail and bulldozer activate speed modifier from 0.5x to 0.6x
* Hellcat vision range reduced from 46m to 35m
* Hellcat MG upgrade cost from 75m to 50m

* Supply Yard:
Level 2 upgrade research duration from 90s to 45s

WM:

Doctrinal
* Inspired Assault now properly applies to Support Weapons
* Inspired Assault Received Accuracy penalty lowered from 1.5x to 1.35x
* FtFL Received Damage modifier increased from 0.7x to 0.8x
* FtFl Cooldown increased with 15s
* Bunker health with Fortify the perimeter from 1.5x to 1.25x
* Fortify the perimeter cp requirement increased +1, Flak cp requirement -1
* Fortify the perimeter now makes defensive structures build 25% faster
* Assault nades: removed => REWORKED: Now assault logistics. KCH start with Bundle grenade; When abilitiy is selected: Volksgrenadiers gain the ability to throw standard grenadier grenade + all Wehrmacht grenades, panzerfausts and medic packs cost 5 munitions less.
* Stuh damage vs buildings from 1.5x to 1.25x
* KT 88mm turret speed from 15 to 18
* MG42 tank turret damage from 4 to 5
* KT now costs 900mp straight, manpower penalty removed

Tier0
* Wehr OP's build time set from 30s to 20s
* Officer now unlocked at HQ after Tier 3 has been researched
* Officer cost from 260mp to 230mp
* Officer can now supervise resource points
* Officer arty barrage cost from 150m to 125m

Tier1
* MG42 reinforce cost to 25mp (modifier set from 0.5x to 0.3x), Reinforce time 0.9x
* Volksgrenadier MP40 fire on the move Accuracy modifier from 0.2x to 0.3x
* Schwimmwagen build time from 40s to 35s
* Motorcycle MG42 priority vs Snipers increased to 100
* G43 Sniper rifle reload time from 2.5s to 5s
* Sniper rifle cooldown modifier short range from 0.75x to 0.85x
* Wehr Sniper upkeep cost increased from 5.376 to 8.064
* Wehr Sniper sight range reduced to 35 from 40
* Snipers now have negative zeal

Tier2
* MG42 Vehicle (on HT is also on vet 2 Stug and Stuh) Short range Suppression from 0.012 to 0.009
* Mortar team now becomes a 4 man squad (kar98k volksgrenadier weapons)
* Mortar reinforce cost modifier from 0.5x to 0.4x, reinforce time 0.9x
* Mortar vet1 received damage in heavy cover 0.75x removed: instead the mortar gets 0.85 received damage overall
* Mortar pack up time (Teardown) reduced from 2.8s to 2.3s
* Mortar damage vs Heroic armor from 0.7x to 1.0x
* Mortar damage vs Garrisoned units from 0.75x to 1x
* Mortar AoE medium range from 3.5 to 4
* Mortar damage from 36 to 37

Tier3
* LMG 42 upgrade munitions cost from 75 to 50
* Halftrack Flammenwerfer upgrade munitions cost from 75 to 50
* Puma 50mm (upgun) accuracy on the move from 0.5x to 0.75x
* Officer removed from Sturm Armory
* Stug/Stuh population cap from 4 to 6
* GeschutzWagen population cap from 8 to 6
* Geschutzwagen 75mm damage vs M3 halftrack and Jeep from 0.75x to 1x

Tier4
* Tier 4 tech cost from 200/50 to 150/50
* Panzer Command build time from 165s to 140s
* Stuka AoE accuracy increased to 100pct
* Stuka Damage against Howitzers increased from 1.0x to 1.25x
* Stuka Damage vs all infantry types from 0.25x to 0.3x
* KCH capping rate from 1 to 1.25
* Killing a KCH experience points granted lowered from 4 to 3
* Panzer IV and Ostwind acceleration from 1.2 to 1.5
* Ostwind 37mm damage vs Greyhound armor from 0.5x to 0.6x

KKC (The buffs are added next to the already existing bonuses)
* Support veterancy lvl 1:
- Wehr sniper sight range 1.15x
* Vehicle veterancy lvl 1:
- Halftrack received damage from 0.75x to 0.85x
* Vehicle veterancy lvl 2
- Halftrack cooldown 0.85x
- Bike, Schwimm accuracy 1.1x
- Pak penetration 1.125x
* Tank veterancy level 2:
- Panzer IV and Panther now get 0.9x reload
- MG42 TANK turret damage from 4 to 5



So here is the list with feedback to most changes (for people who like to read or didn't understand something in the other list. I can give more feedback later in this topic.):

US:
* Bombing Run reworked
Kolaris completed his first attempt with more bombs (less damage) => more even damage spread. The reason for this rework is because it gave random results for a 250 munitions ability. Sometimes you don't hit a thing but other times with extreme luck you could kill 2 panthers and more.
* Fix airborne ATG reinforce cost ~35mp
Obvious bug now it's around 75mp to reinforce; way to high.
* Airborne squad reinforce cost from 45 to 40 (0.72x to 0.64x)
Just like with Rangers they have the highest upkeep and relative reinforce costs of the game. It's hard to get these squads vs Wehr and not regret it later on, because they are pretty lackluster vs Wehr. They just soak up so much of your resources.
* Rangers reinforce cost from 45 to 42 (from 0.75x to 0.7x)
* Rangers now have Ranger M1 Garand rifle, instead of standard M1 Garand rifle
The difference lies in accuracy Standard: 0.35/0.55/0.75 Ranger: 0.45/0.65/0.85, I think it's a more of a bug that they were given standard M1's (since the weapon just sits there in the files), an additional option is to lower the thompson munitions cost a little to 80 munitions for examle.
* Rangers veterancy requirements to 8/16/32 from 12/24/44
I feel like their veterancy req got so high just because how effective they are vs PE light vehicles and infantry (which give tons of xp). They'd run over PE with this requirements, but with Wehr it's definitely not the case.
* Off map combat group can now have M3 Quad in group 3 of the lottery, 30 cal and Mortar removed in group 2
Removing the crappiest versions of the omcg you can get is good for gameplay but it might become slightly too cost efficient, in a situation you only press the button mindlessly. So if it turns out too good price should probably increased to 900MP
I brought the quad in for more diversity.
The 3rd unit you get is now one of these: MG or mortar or M8 or rifle or Quad.

* Howitzer Veterancy reworked:
This is to give it some bonuses that actually do work on the Howitzer.
Vet 1 10% reduction to scatter angle
Vet 2 10 second reduction to ability cooldown
Vet 3 0.8x Reload
shells follow up in quicker succession
* Pershing HVAP (upgun) AoE distance long from 3 to 5, medium from 1.5 to 2.5, Short from 0.5 to 1
This will take away any downside off the HVAP rounds upgrade. Which used to cripple the Pershing a bunch vs Infantry. Now it's just a straight upgrade.
* Raid now costs 1 CP less (the rest of the tree is one cp less too) I don't think nobody minds the calliope coming at 6CP's, and this would give Raid some more early uses. Now it's mostly used for backdoor capping vp's very lategame.
* Calliope price reduced from 650mp to 625mp
now it feels a bit expensive, you don't really have a lot of momentum to wait for 650mp in 1v1 for an indirect firing unit.
* Calliope veterancy lvl 2: bonus max scatter 0.9x
A bonus that actually applies, making your barrage more accurate

Tier0
* Engineer vet requirements lowered to 8/14/26
* Grease gun moving burst from 1x to 1.5x
to match other smgs; bugfix, don't worry it has a moving accuracy of 0.15x so it's still really crap when used while moving
* Demo Charge research time from 60s to 40s
* American Observation post build time set from 50s to 30s
An engineer squad will now construct it in 10 second instead of 16.6, I feel this would promote strat diversity.
* MG Nest Modifiers vs Suppressed targets fixed: accuracy vs suppressed from 0.5x to 1x; damage vs suppressed from 0.67x to 1x; suppression vs suppressed from 0.55x to 0.5x
* MG Nest Modifiers vs Pinned targets: Damage vs pinned from 0.67x to 0.25x
Bugfix, set the values to standard heavy machine gun values

Tier1
* Jeep 30 cal damage from 5 to 6
Done it's in Elite mod and it feels good. You can use the jeep for using it's gun now, not only pushing around.
I also wanted test the removing of the negative accuracy increment that jeeps and bikes have. I think it's really stupid concept to promote clumping of units close together. But I left it out of the list because it might push the jeep over the edge atm. If you would remove negative acc increment, we'd probably need to increase the price by 10-20mp. Jeep is also the only vehicle that didn't get an extra boos on vet 1, because of the same reason.

* Jeep damage modifier vs bike from 0.6x to 0.5x
to not change that matchup, because that matchup is fine. Avoid an accidental indirect nerf to the bike.
* Jeep max reload from 6s to 6.5s
Not really a balance change, it's a change(bugfix) to bring it in line with the other 30 cals. Supertiny nerf if you will but not noticeable.
* Jeep 30 cal priority vs Snipers increased to 100
Done, it's brilliant.
* Riflemen reinforce cost from 27 to 24 (from 0.6x to 0.53334x)
Done. It gives USA the much needed manpower space to breath after you had engagements vs the Wehr. Before this change, Wehr would always come out of top manpowerwise.

Tier2
* American HMG reinforce cost from 0.5x to 0.35x, reinforce time 0.9x
All the changes on weapon team reinforce you see is because currently it's much more cost effective to just let your weapon crew die and recrew it with volks or rifles. This makes it much cheaper. These changes reward you for keeping your weapon crews alive.
* American Mortar team squad size from 3 to 4 (m1 carbine on the extra man)
* American Mortar reinforce cost from 0.5x to 0.4x, reinforce time 0.9x
* American Mortar veterancy requirements from 8/16/32 to 8/14/26
* Mortar damage (and barrage) from 20 to 21.5
* Mortar damage vs Garrisoned units from 0.75x to 1x
all these changes: it's an attempt to make the Mortar a better option overall. Squad size increased to reduce high vulnerability. Somebody mentioned they will be harder to recrew; this can be fixed by leaving the recrew amount at 3, like in COH2.
* Mortar accuracy vs airborne armor from 0.75x to 1x, damage from 1x to 2x Bugfix, in case Axis steals an American mortar
* Springfield Sniper rifle reload from 3s to 5s
* Springfield Sniper rifle cooldown modifier short range from 0.75x to 0.85x
* American Sniper upkeep cost from 9.6 to 12.8
These are changes that take away some needless power snipers have in certain situations. Upkeep cost is an attempt to decrease cost effectiveness
* Snipers now have negative zeal
It's a decent counter to the sniperblob, makes them much more vulnerable when spammed close together. Props to Tommy

Tier3
* Vet 1 M8 and M3 extra bonus: 0.9x reload
Gave every USA armored vehicle an extra bonus at Vet 1, because now (1.25x max speed) it's slightly lackluster.
* M8 37mm damage vs Marder III Geschutz) armor from 2x to 1x
Geschutz should counter M8's not the other way around.
* T17 penetration from 0.4/0.6/1 to 0.5/0.75/1
Terrible, penetration rates to less less terrible rates
* M3 build time from 40s to 35s
Now fully upgraded M8 and HT both cost 85s, I just want to give a 5s symbolic advantage to the HT. I don't want to screw up timing of baserushes though by lowering the upgrade time.
* Quad accuracy increment from 1.02 to 1.04
Just a safe small buff to DPS, especially vs blobs. Quite frankly I'd just go ahead and test it with a 40% damage buff and see how it behaves and how much damage it does. And tweak down from there. It's actually quite burst reliant as it has quite long cooldown and reload. Might try to redesign the whole gun, but with similar dps.
But for now tiny increase in accuracy increment helps it scale vs infantry blobs slightly better especially at long range kiting. Another buff could be just a price decrease on the upgrade.

* 57mm anti tank gun build time from 67s to 60s
Takes a very long time to build, just lowering it a little can't hurt too much can it?
* Give US 57mm ATG some added defensive veterancy bonuses (also for AB version)
Vet 1 Received accuracy 0.95x
Vet 2 Max Health 1.1x
Vet 3 Received damage 0.9x
It can do with some survivability, it's so hard to maintain vet on ATG's their crews are so vulnerable.

Tier4
* All US tanks get extra 1.1x acceleration bonus at vet 1 (including Pershing Calliope)
* Sherman 76mm Reload reduced from 7s to 6s
* Sherman 76mm AoE distance short from 0.75 to 0.25
These upgrades is to make the 76mm upgrade better vs tanks and vehicles without drastically changing the behaviour vs infantry. Once again the straight upgrade principle.
* Sherman M2HB machine gun upgrade cost from 75m to 50m
I just feel 75 munitions for the same gun the M8 gets at 50 is too much. Especially lategame where you want to make fully use of your AWM, Field repairs, Strafe/bomb runs and Arty abilities. A lot of players don't upgrade their Shermans because it's just expensive. Further more making the upgrade cheaper wil make it more rewarding teching to Armor, making infantry play less dominant.
* Sherman Smoke research cost lower from 150mp25fuel to 75mp25fuel
* Sherman Smoke use munitions cost lowered from 50 to 25
Done, with slightly different values but done.
* Sherman Smoke now applies to the Croc Sherman aswell
* Sherman Crocodile health increased from 636hp to 700hp
* Sherman Crodocile can now upgrade the M2HB machine gun
* Sherman Crocodile ready aim time removed, projectile speed fixed
* Sherman bulldozer cost from 75m to 50m
Croc buffing machine is going hard, I liked first version of Tommy aswell, but we're on the right way. Only danger is too not overbuff the Croc.
* Sherman crab mine flail cost reduced from 75muni to 50muni
* Sherman crab mine flail and bulldozer activate speed modifier from 0.5x to 0.6x Or that idea when it was activated they would get received penetration 0.9x. Was also a good idea. (forgot who brought it up. sowwy)
* Hellcat vision range reduced from 46m to 35m
bugfix
* Hellcat MG upgrade cost from 75m to 50m

* Supply Yard:
Level 2 upgrade research duration from 90s to 45s
For an investment that only pays on the long term, 90 seconds is a very long time before it kicks in. A lot of times SY lvl 2 is a kick in your own nuts


WM:

Doctrinal
* Inspired Assault now properly applies to Support Weapons
Actually getting the feeling it might work on some of them, except maybe mortars, not sure on this issue.
* Inspired Assault Received Accuracy penalty lowered from 1.5x to 1.35x
It's still a big risk you taking, but the margin (which was too big) to shoot yourself in the foot is slightly lower now.
* FtFL Received Damage modifier increased from 0.7x to 0.8x
standard necessary nerf, it's just a ridiculous ability, it does too much. The average damage reduction will go from 0.56x to 0.64x
* FtFl Cooldown increased with 15s
You can spam it instantly now there is no cooldown between uses. It makes for a guaranteed win, even if the US player managed to stay on the field.
* Bunker health with Fortify the perimeter from 1.5x to 1.25x
* Fortify the perimeter cp requirement increased +1, Flak cp requirement -1 I'm not sure if these changes are needed after FTFL nerf, but I still think defensive doctrine offers too much power vs anything except vs snipers. + It takes away baserushes.
* Fortify the perimeter now makes defensive structures build 25% faster
It fits the theme of the ability and is a buff to lick the nerfwounds a little
* Assault nades: removed => REWORKED: Now assault logistics. KCH start with Bundle grenade; When abilitiy is selected: Volksgrenadiers gain the ability to throw standard grenadier grenade + all Wehrmacht grenades, panzerfausts and medic packs cost 5 munitions less.
Ideas are welcome for this ability, but the current assault grenades are too buggy in too many ways. There is the cancellation bug with garrisoning and ungarrisoning building, the stun effects, the squad can't move or you lose your munis aswell...
* Stuh damage vs buildings from 1.5x to 1.25x
Just a small tuning down, it's a important feat that it stays good vs buildings, it's just slightly too good atm.
* KT 88mm turret speed from 15 to 18
It's annoyingly slow and after the M10 misfire bug, it will really need this change to still be viable. Don't worry it's still the slowest turret in the game. As comparison: Tiger turret is the second slowest with a turning speed of 19.
* MG42 tank turret damage from 4 to 5
"Accident buff", see KKC below
* KT now costs 900mp straight, manpower penalty removed
It would feel so much better if you didn't have that hidden manpower drain anymore, and you don't fall for that noobtrap delicious 500mp bargain anymore. Which ends you costing 1000mp anyways. Change it to 1000 if the buffs combined are too much

Tier0
* Wehr OP's build time set from 30s to 20s
From 15s to 10s for a pioneer squad
* Officer now unlocked at HQ after Tier 3 has been researched
* Officer cost from 260mp to 230mp
* Officer can now supervise resource points
* Officer arty barrage cost from 150m to 125m
"The Pepsi remake" I think his idea was pretty good and would love to try it out, if Officer seems broken :p reverting can be done easily. Also considering ideas to give it a small smoke grenade or anti sniper power (give it's crit back?).

Tier1
See US T1 / T2 for explanation of similar units Mg/sniper/mortar
* MG42 reinforce cost to 25mp (modifier set from 0.5x to 0.3x), Reinforce time 0.9x
* Volksgrenadier MP40 fire on the move Accuracy modifier from 0.2x to 0.3x
Idk why the moving accuracy is so crappy, just make it a bit less crappy should help when chasing units etc, but in most situations it's still better to just stand still.
* Schwimmwagen build time from 40s to 35s
Only thing that is holding this unit back is buildtime.
* Motorcycle MG42 priority vs Snipers increased to 100
* G43 Sniper rifle reload time from 2.5s to 5s
* Sniper rifle cooldown modifier short range from 0.75x to 0.85x
* Wehr Sniper upkeep cost increased from 5.376 to 8.064
* Wehr Sniper sight range reduced to 35 from 40
same as other standard infantry, it's one of those things that make attack moving sniper early game even easier, I undo the nerf at vet 1
* Snipers now have negative zeal

Tier2
* MG42 Vehicle (on HT is also on Stug) Short range Suppression from 0.012 to 0.009
* Mortar team now becomes a 4 man squad (kar98k volksgrenadier weapon)
* Mortar reinforce cost modifier from 0.5x to 0.4x, reinforce time 0.9x
* Mortar vet1 received damage in heavy cover 0.75x removed: instead the mortar gets 0.85 received damage overall
* Mortar pack up (Teardown) time reduced from 2.8s to 2.3s
* Mortar damage vs Heroic armor from 0.7x to 1.0x
* Mortar damage vs Garrisoned units from 0.75x to 1x
* Mortar damage from 36 to 37
* Mortar AoE medium range from 3.5 to 4

Tier3
* LMG 42 upgrade munitions cost from 75 to 50
* Halftrack Flammenwerfer upgrade munitions cost from 75 to 50
Lazy buffs to the above by decreasing price. LMG probably doesn't need a big buff after the AI fix. Alternatives:
LMG search radius increased (this is the area where Accuracy increment applies) Flammenwerfer AoE long increased from 2 to 2.5

* Puma 50mm (upgun) accuracy on the move from 0.5x to 0.75x to give it more reliability when it's hunting down armor
* Officer removed from Sturm Armory
* Stug/Stuh population cap from 4 to 6
* Geschutzwagen population cap from 8 to 6
* Geschutzwagen 75mm damage vs M3 halftrack and Jeep from 0.75x to 1x
Standard halftrack could withstand + 2 shots easily and jeep 1 shot, this is not the case anymore with this change.

Tier4
Since we're buffing the quality of USA lategame, we should also have a look at Wehrs lategame. Currently in a lot of games if you have T1/T2/T3 there is hard to think of a reason why you would want to invest in T4. Therefor similar to the croc buffs I'd bring some more life to the battle phase aswell.
* Tier 4 tech cost from 200/50 to 150/50
* Panzer Command build time from 165s to 140s
* Stuka AoE accuracy increased to 100pct
* Stuka Damage against Howitzers increased from 1.0x to 1.25x
* Stuka Damage vs all infantry types from 0.25x to 0.3x
Stukas lack a bit vs infantry (especially compared to nebelpower), these changes should solve that problem. I also want to make Stuka a counter to the howitzer, ever since firestorm got nerfed Infantry Doctrine howitzers are a very safe choice. The costly Stuka should offer a lategame counter.
* KCH capping rate from 1 to 1.25
* Killing a KCH experience points granted lowered from 4 to 3
The biggest problem with KCH atm is when USA can kill them they gain double XP, which feeds them tons of veterancy. A bit less of this XP and you feel yourself in a not so hurting position.
* Panzer IV and Ostwind acceleration from 1.2 to 1.5
Just a change to them slighlty more mobile, this would make them easier to use at kiting infantry, circlestrafing etc.
* Ostwind 37mm damage vs Greyhound armor from 0.5x to 0.6x
Just to amplify it's role that it's good vs infantry AND light armor, sometimes Ostwind is a bit lackluster vs M8's, this should fix it.


KKC (The buffs are added next to the already existing bonuses)
* Support veterancy lvl 1:
- Wehr sniper sight range 1.15x
Too undo the base nerf
* Vehicle veterancy lvl 1:
- Halftrack received damage from 0.75x to 0.85x
Yes I can hear you thinking, A NERF. True, but every other vehicle/tank has that (0.85) bonus. I just feel it's a bug. It creates this stupid situations aswell where you need 6 zooks or 5 Sherman shots too kill one halftrack. Including they don't miss and not including the vet 2 health bonus the HT gets
* Vehicle veterancy lvl 2:
- Halftrack cooldown 0.85x
A buff that powers the standard halftrack but especially the flammenwerfer. I don't think Stuka needs anymore buffs.
- Bike, Schwimm accuracy 1.1x
Vehicle veterancy got hit hard in 2.602 and bikes were the biggest victims, i'm trying to give them something back.
- Pak penetration 1.125x
tiny buff to make it scale slightly better into lategame.
* Tank veterancy level 2:
- Panzer IV and Panther now get 0.9x reload
- MG42 TANK turret damage from 4 to 5
Okay so why this buff to Panzer IV and Panther: Because their veterancy scaling is currently really bad compared to the STUG (and STUH).
The Stug gets a max health bonus of 1.15x and a machine gun that does more damage AND more suppression. I want to bring the damage of the machine gun in line and instead of the standard health buff I'd give them an offensive faster firing rate. You could also make it a health buff or less received penetration ...

- STUH received penetration 0.85x bonus changed to 1.15x Max health is an option, to bring it in line with standard vet 2


Options or other discussion points;
*Pak more reliable with normal shots, slightly less damage on the camouflaged shot. Especially the M8 is very uncatchable; in return the M8 (and t17 too) could receive a couple of tiny buffs. Like a tiny dps buff or a sight range bonus at vet 1 .
*Nerf snipers harder, maybe small arms (single shot rifle weapons mostly) slightly more accurate vs snipers, maybe -5 health(becomes weaker vs all weapons), change rules of countersniping (meh happened), make a cooldown modifier on the move, increase reveal radius on all infantry, remove unit sniped button ...
*More fixing onto random artillery, Stuhs (Tommy working on it), Mortars? Min-Max damage difference pretty high sometimes; Aoe Accuracy effects are questionable
*Greyhound base health vs skirts from 150/150 to 200/100
*Minesweeper buff; maybe mine detection range from 15 to 20; maybe cheaper upgrade cost; maybe capping rate increased
*Making an American US FHQ start viable: Can build SY with only a FHQ, maybe decrease starting fuel and fuel cost of rax / wsc to compensate for when superfast M8 is rushed.
*Another option for assault blitzkrieg could be for example: For every unit you kill you gain +1 munitions. (Coho inspiration xD)
*MP44 redesign, so you don't have to move get max dps.

Bugs

Mortars no longer deal double suppression to friendly units at AoE short!

Tank Traps can be passed by certain vehicles (Greyhounds... etc): fix that (but not too much, infantry should still be able to pass) Priority, shouldn't be that hard to fix

Fix an issue with satchel charges not being targetable on HQ's (rare)

Panther MG42 turret visual bug

Fix a bug that the MG on the M3 can't be manned when researching Quad

Snipers no longer automatically target light vehicles

280mm barrage now has double damage vs all vehicles and tanks Does it vs most types though, I think it's mostly/only PE and British vehicles affected ignore this change.

M10 misfire bug
done, and reload speed increased to compensate wind up removal confirmed. Whoever fixed this deserves a medal.

Fix Hellcat Coaxial MG Accuracy bug vs Snipers 65 to 0.65 done

Retreat bug (pinned / suppressed)

Fix AI with units jumping around too much.

Fix a bug where Stormtroopers can move at full speed while cloaked after being reinforced

Fix a bug some HQ's can't be scatchel charged

Fix a bug with HQ's giving more increment accuracy

Fix bug that cause units to pack and unpack mortar repeatedly

Flammenwerfer min and max damage switched => just make it 35 for both

Make it possible to shift click salvage wrecks

LMG (and snipers aswell etc) guy jumps around a lot fixable? done

Fix a bug where a Flak under construction doesn't show any health loss when getting shot at

Fix an issue with airborne smoke making units to get stuck (?)

Fix an issue where smoke can't be seen when dropped

Fix a bug with the pak getting stuck, same with mg

ostwind priority bug vs stolen pak?

Calliope barrage can now be cancelled while active done

Medic stations now show up on mini map (?)

...
8 Dec 2013, 14:36 PM
#2
avatar of Mortality

Posts: 255

8 Dec 2013, 15:02 PM
#3
avatar of GeneralCH

Posts: 419

8 Dec 2013, 15:16 PM
#4
avatar of Pepsi

Posts: 622 | Subs: 1

would be a hell of a game, do it relic.
8 Dec 2013, 15:27 PM
#5
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

Although I think a lot of these are really good (hence why a lot of them have been implemented in elite mod, one way or another), the changelist is unnecessarily long and to think that they could all be implemented at once and achieve perfect balance is crazy. This is kind of what I'm working towards but you've got to go one step at a time and balance things along the way, because you can't expect to anticipate every balance ramification.

Also, people need to play it to balance it, but as nobody seems to have as much interest in doing that as they do arguing about the changes on the forums, it's all a bit moot really...
8 Dec 2013, 16:03 PM
#6
avatar of Dropy

Posts: 77

Think the Theorycraft should continue untill the beta is over with, cause atm. the community is split between the default coh and the beta, so you will have a harder time now to get people to try it for you.
8 Dec 2013, 19:26 PM
#7
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

Also, people need to play it to balance it, but as nobody seems to have as much interest in doing that as they do arguing about the changes on the forums, it's all a bit moot really...


I know tbh, that's one the reasons I just posted it all at once. Because there's so many smaller issues and small things. And small good ideas, (not coming only from me) which would improve the gameplay a lot.
And I just wanted to throw them out here. So I don't need to keep them memorized. Some kind of letting go if you will. Some kind of well I did my best, now it's up to the rest of the community. Hopefully there comes some response. But my hopes are pretty low.

balance things along the way

Yup agreed, it works better that way. And it's easier to catch out bugs / unintended changes. (Like strafe is still gimped.) It also makes it easier for players to understand the changes. Because I know for some who aren't really into cohstats etc it's sometimes not easy to understand.
8 Dec 2013, 22:14 PM
#8
avatar of wehrman

Posts: 80

I think of all the great games I've seen on TFN and replay packs. I don't think this many changes are needed. Many strategies are still viable, and in the end, for the most part, the best player wins. Occasionally there is a RNG type game, but this balances out over long run.

I think if the bugs are fixed (i.e. M10, stag, retreat, remanning MGs, pakes, etc.) and negative zeal is added to group snipers, that's good enough.

The community is already small enough, splintering them off into beta, non beta, and mods will soon wreck whatever little we have.
8 Dec 2013, 22:44 PM
#9
avatar of TheArtistKnownAsDuCe

Posts: 197

2 much 2 read
8 Dec 2013, 23:37 PM
#10
avatar of Purlictor

Posts: 393

2 much 2 read


Then don't comment.

Ot: I like the idea of t4 for both factions being cheaper, I love seeing wehr t4 get some play time.

Changes would make infantry company the best choice by far though (which it already kind of is). Why change the stug pop cap? Make it 6 if you absolutely have to change it.

I dislike wehr MG reinforce cost reduction since it doesn't have the same problems as the US .30
9 Dec 2013, 05:43 AM
#11
avatar of CombatMuffin

Posts: 642

I like a lot of the changes but disagree on many others. I won't comment because like Tommy said, we should be playing a lot more, rather than just criticizing changes (otherwise it ain't feedback).

9 Dec 2013, 17:58 PM
#12
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1


Changes would make infantry company the best choice by far though (which it already kind of is). Why change the stug pop cap? Make it 6 if you absolutely have to change it.
I dislike wehr MG reinforce cost reduction since it doesn't have the same problems as the US .30


I think Airborne and Armor are buffed equally or more. The worst point about airborne being is their reinforce costs and bombing run (looking for solution).

Armor, better (more beastly) Pershing, slightly easier to get Calliope. I don't know how to buff it more tbh without making it straight out the best doctrine. Field repairs are great Awm is even greater, Rapid deployment is definitely useful. And Raid has it uses from time to time (hopefully more with 1cp less).

Rangers are bad vs Wehrmacht, I don't see how they could not use a buff.
Off map combat group might be too much yes, 900 manpower is probably the better price now.

Stug POP CAP: 6 I could live with, ye it might be better than to drastically increase it. And lower the Geschutz to 6 aswell, to close that gap.
Edit: Yup I jumped a bit too fast one that one (only added that change a few days ago). 6 is best, but 4 (same as Puma / Greyhound) I found a little low for a Stug.

How does Wehrmacht MG42 not have the same issue?
It has a reinforce cost of 41 per man so reinforcing 2 men cost 82 manpower.
While if you let it die and reinforce it with 3 volks it's 66 (22mp each) => 16 manpower cheaper off and can reinforce it later (and faster) for a cheaper price aswell. So yes MG42 has the exact same problem.
I don't want things to be let to die be rewarding.
(Medic bunker is already rewarding enough in this case. AWM is an exception to the rule.) Unit preservation should always be key part of the game.
30 Dec 2013, 11:53 AM
#13
avatar of IronRoman

Posts: 329

Permanently Banned
Are you retarded Rocky? You must be, Relic can't even fix simple bugs to make coh 1 playable and you want them to start balancing an old game? LOL
30 Dec 2013, 14:28 PM
#14
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

No we could actually do it ourselves. (elite mod)

Even without being Expertsssssss like yourself.
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