Molotov and Grenades inconstistency

I could upload some videos, but I'm sure I don't need to cause all of you know what I mean: Grenades and Molotovs do no consistent damage. Am I the only one who finds that rather annoying and plain stupid?
I'm not talking about cover reducing/buffing damage or such. I'm just talking about stuff like: Grenade A does no damage at all to a full squad. Grenade B kills 5 out of 6 men. MG 1 gets hit by a Molotov. Nothing happens. MG relocates, no harm done. MG 2 gets hit by a Molotov. Instantly burns two guys.
I do not want to start with the old 'Back in vCoH everything was so much better' BS, but still. Incendiary grenades did a solid damage over time, and you could roughly calculate the damage grenades will deal to squads, depending on spread, cover, entities and such.
Why change so no one can predict what is going to happen?

dictated but not read
Anarcy

flamer weapons have a small chance every second (?) to instantly fry an unit. It's a very annoying thing and creates very inconsisten resuslts especially on molotovs.
Grenades don't have any random modifier afaik. They obivously do more damage in the middle of circle and then it drops of the further away from the middle

flamer weapons have a small chance every second (?) to instantly fry an unit. It's a very annoying thing and creates very inconsisten resuslts especially on molotovs.
Grenades don't have any random modifier afaik. They obivously do more damage in the middle of circle and then it drops of the further away from the middle

Well, I've no inside-code-knowledge about grenades, but I find that hard to believe. It really seems very random. I've had grenades that did literary no damage at all even though there were some entities in the blast radius for certain.

Well, I've no inside-code-knowledge about grenades, but I find that hard to believe. It really seems very random. I've had grenades that did literary no damage at all even though there were some entities in the blast radius for certain.

the distance from the center of the blast is very important. the amount of damage dealt is different depending on this distance. also, the only randomness is for units very close to the edge of the explosion. grenades have accuracy just like any other weapon, so if a unit is on the very edge, it has a .6 chance of getting hit. the area that can actually miss is very small though. if you get a direct hit on or near the center of the circle, it will deal full damage 100% of the time.

molotovs on the other hand are extremely random (as are all flame weapons). the damage on flamethrowers (exluding kv8) and molotovs is actually quite low. they rely on crits (instant kills) almost entirely. their chance to crit is based on the targets hp. if it has >50% hp, it has a 5% chance to crit. if it has <50% hp, it goes up to a 10% chance.

explosives actually have a similar crit. any entity with <50% will have a 10% chance to die instantly when hit with a grenade, or any explosive. this is fairly insignificant though, since 50% hp is equal to 40 hp. most explosives will do more than 40 damage. the only time they would do less is close to the edge of the blast radius. so its a much rarer occurance than flame crits.

the distance from the center of the blast is very important. the amount of damage dealt is different depending on this distance. also, the only randomness is for units very close to the edge of the explosion. grenades have accuracy just like any other weapon, so if a unit is on the very edge, it has a .6 chance of getting hit. the area that can actually miss is very small though. if you get a direct hit on or near the center of the circle, it will deal full damage 100% of the time.

molotovs on the other hand are extremely random (as are all flame weapons). the damage on flamethrowers (exluding kv8) and molotovs is actually quite low. they rely on crits (instant kills) almost entirely. their chance to crit is based on the targets hp. if it has >50% hp, it has a 5% chance to crit. if it has <50% hp, it goes up to a 10% chance.

explosives actually have a similar crit. any entity with <50% will have a 10% chance to die instantly when hit with a grenade, or any explosive. this is fairly insignificant though, since 50% hp is equal to 40 hp. most explosives will do more than 40 damage. the only time they would do less is close to the edge of the blast radius. so its a much rarer occurance than flame crits.

Wow, thanks for the in-depth explanation, wooof!
Another, somewhat related question: In vCoh, I had the impression that vetted squads have somewhat of a One-Hit-Survival-Chance. Like a big Howitzer hitting a vet3 squad, chances are that 1 man with close to no life will survive. First: Is this just my imagination? Second: If not, is there a similar thing in Coh2?

Guard grenades are pretty consistent, everything inside the radius dies.(often it is full squad kill). Bundlenades are ok too.

Molotovs are more random but they are still much better than riflenades imo. If you shoot riflenade at hmg or house you kill some men but they dont need to reposition or get out of the house =(

The most random thing is assault grenadier grenade. I dont have that commander but I can see that rarely it kills more than 3 of my guys.

Wow, thanks for the in-depth explanation, wooof!
Another, somewhat related question: In vCoh, I had the impression that vetted squads have somewhat of a One-Hit-Survival-Chance. Like a big Howitzer hitting a vet3 squad, chances are that 1 man with close to no life will survive. First: Is this just my imagination? Second: If not, is there a similar thing in Coh2?

There is no such thing in CoH2. Infantry vet bonuses give extra armor, which is ignored by flame weapons and explosives. A Vet3 squad will take the same damage from a grenade as a vet0 squad.

Well, here is a little video of a game I played today. If what you say is true: Why doesnt the weapon crew of the Howitzer die? Or at least take some more damage? I still dont see through grenades
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLjBYJmO-kY&feature=youtu.be

i think granades are also as rondom as hell as sumtimes i kill alot and sumtimes noting and that is when the enemy is fuly under my blast radius

Well, here is a little video of a game I played today. If what you say is true: Why doesnt the weapon crew of the Howitzer die? Or at least take some more damage? I still dont see through grenades
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLjBYJmO-kY&feature=youtu.be

if you look closely at the german howitzer there is a green Shield, and its possible that this is creating a cover for the crew allowing them to take less damage. im not sure how the modifers are in coh 2 vs green cover for grenades

a flanked grenade throw might have given a different result, and additionally: shock grenades are not super strong

FYI, Molotovs more or less instakill Howi and PaK43 crews.

Molotovs are more questionable than your run of the mill vCoH pineapple nuke that Roflmen could lob around without caring. The reason that they're so so effective is because of the silly (terrible) small arms mechanics of the game ALLOWING cons to suicide charge an enemy unit in cover and make it without losing a single man.

The Riflenade is (imho) supposed to be used in conjunction with an MG42--you pin your target down and use the riflenade as a sort of early game mortar--a suppressed target ain't moving out of the way unless the player retreats, in which case you've won that firefight and can likely capture the surrounding area.

I'd honestly like infantry with flat grenades (and a decent effing throwing arm, seriously) rather than molotovs. However, Mols are really the only great boon for non-PPSh'd cons (excluding the magic sock grenade).

I like this part of the randomness in COH2.

from the rg 42 file:

| | | tp_heavy: {
| | | | accuracy_multiplier: 1f;
| | | | damage_multiplier: 0.5f;
| | | | penetration_multiplier: 1f;
| | | | suppression_multiplier: 0.1f;

so it will only deal half the damage it normally would. also, its a little hard to see in the video, but the grenade may not have been close enough to the entities to deal its max damage to begin with.

for the rg 42, the AOE radius (the circle you see when throwing the grenade) is 4m. the area of the grenade that deals the full 80 damage only has a radius of 1m. the far radius is 2m. so between 1m and 2m the damage is scaled linearly between 80 down to 20 damage. anything at 2-4m only takes 20 damage. accuracy is only .6 is this part of the radius though, so it will miss entities 40% of the time.

Ah, okay, very well then. But correct me if I am wrong: Didnt grenades in vCoh do more damage to units in cover than out in the open, instead of dealing less damage?

i just glanced at a few of the grenades. every one that i looked at did the normal amount of damage to units in light or heavy cover, but they did double damage to units in buildings or negative cover.

at least thats just the few i looked at. there may have been some that did do more damage to units in cover though.