Balancing the machineguns

Hello boys,

The current mg balance is not good.

It should be like this.

Firing arc: MG42 > Maxim > Dushka

Supression and pinning: MG42 > Maxim > Dushka

Damage: Dushka > Maxim > MG42

Setup- & teardowntime: Dushka > Maxim > MG42

Ofcourse this is my opinion and I'm not asking for the old op mg42. But right now the suppression and pin performance of the mg42 is too low. And I'm saying this as a soviet player.

Right now the Dushka and the Maxim are outperforming the mg42 in every role.

Please discuss

i agree. The pre nerf mg needed nerfing as in 2v2+ it was a game killer to be forced into penel+m3 to force the mgs from buildings and to cap your first fuel point at the 6-8 min mark to be way behind in tech. These days maxim spam forces you down some pretty unflexible b/o like fht and upAM that gets countered itself quite fast considering alot of players are using industry tactics to get a t-70 (sometimes before said counters to maxim) sure you could go mortar which can be pretty effective but its a small amount of micro to reposition and merge to keep up the pressure from a soviet point of view.

I think the mg could do with being buffed to have suppression be somewhere between the pre patch and nerf levels and for the dushka to be 1cp (which is a fair trade for getting an mg and snipers/penals) as well as for sov industry tactics to not insta build the tier buildings (though i think the commander should still be able to insta build tanks)

Firing arc: MG42 > Maxim = Dushka
Supression and pinning: Dushka = MG42 > Maxim
Damage: Dushka > Maxim > MG42
Setup- & teardowntime: Dushka = Maxim > MG42

this would be nice

It should be like this.

Firing arc: MG42 > Maxim > Dushka

Supression and pinning: MG42 > Maxim > Dushka

no

no

Well, care to elaborate?

Well, care to elaborate?

no lol

Right now the Dushka and the Maxim are outperforming the mg42 in every role.

Please discuss

I do not recommend to comapre these three with eachother since they all fulfill different roles and in the case of the mg42, are not used within the same faction.

The maxim serves as a mobile, agressive suppression tool to help deal with superior german infantry (lmg Grens, PGrens, AssGrens).

The DShK's purpose is similiar to the maxim while offering the possibility to skip t2 and counter light vehicles. In my opinion it's only problem is the early availability.

They both regularly face 4 man squads. Their heaviest counters (early-mid) AFAIK are rifle nades, bundle nades, fast firing mortars, FHTs.

The mg42 is a suppression tool, meant to make handling superior soviet numbers a bit easier. But for this discussion --> go here

MG42s drawbacks outweigh its strengths.
It cant perform its intended function adequately.

Its suppression is weak, its setuptime is long, its DPS is frankly pointless because Suppressed units get automatic cover even in the open, its only 4 man survival and its statwise superior Pinning time never practically comes into effect because no-one hangs around long enough for it to take effect.

An Oorahing Con can charge right from the edge of the arc, through it, into Molotov range, before Suppression hits. It then takes appreciable dmg, but the Molotov will roast and deposition the MG42 nonetheless. Basically a single Con is sufficient to counter an Mg42, two just makes it laughably easy.

Discussion on this unit has become ridiculous, due to some people completely losing perspective on the fact that the MG42 SHOULD be strong in its intended purpose, which it currently isnt.

It should be HARD to force off a MG42 with only Cons, which it currently isnt.

As Gustav points out, MG42 SHOULD be a Suppression tool, yet its Suppression is now 1s SLOWER than the Maxim, and 2s slower than the Dusche. How the hell does that make sense?

Imo the Pin time is overvalued in Relics balancing of this unit, and a vestige from a design period when Pinning was intended to matter. It currently doesnt, the time it takes to Pin is secondary to Suppression, and as I demonstrated above, with such a slow Suppression, especially vs Oorah or moving through incidental yellow cover on approach, almost never practically comes into effect.

My suggestion, is to make MG42s PIN at the current rate it Suppresses at.

But no rariinal discussion on this unit has, or can take, place as long as sov fanbois categorically stonewall every single suggestion made to improve it. Nor do they provide alternarive suggestions themselves. As far as they are concerned, they like the MG42 being a POS, and intend to keep it that way, rsther than recognising that it is hurting balance in a very real way.

If they do that they will need to make the AoE arc smaller else overlapping HMG will just be OP.

Buff the MG42's suppression. As of now it just doesn't suppress fast enough.

Nerf the Dushka's packing time and perhaps suppression. It's a bloody super-heavy machine gun, it should be hard to move (more than the MG42 IMO) but pack a serious wallop once set up. As of now it's a strictly superior Maxim, and I'd like it to be a different unit. I don't mind the unit's overall performance to be better than the others since it's doctrinal, but it's plain OP currently.

Maxim is pretty fine as it is. Perhaps a slight suppression nerf, but the other two are bigger priorities.

I have been doing a lot of maximspam lately, and mostly with great sucess. Now, im not particulairly good with the soviets, but I am doing fairly well these days by spamming maxims and a t-70 at first oportunity. Honestly I feel that the whole design of the unit is flawed as its a great assaultunit, outdoing conscripts vs infantry.

The dushka should do the damage and at the far end mg42 for the fastest suppression and pinning. The maxim between the two.