MG 42 The Most Useless Unit In The Game

Posters above have already made this point, even supporting the mg doesn't help much because unlike coh1 the attacking squad won't take enough damage from the supporting unit before it can molotov the mg and still turn to fight the second unit.

In Coh1 there was no rifle oorah and teching grenades had a serious cost elsewhere in your abilities in the early game.

The MG42 needs to be slightly meaner. As I believe this is going to happen I'm not too worried about it.

Oorah and molotov is made versus MG. Raising cost rifle grenades and molotov maybie help. Molotov have long and epic animation and you have enough time react.
I play T1 start and i am using two squads penals versus MG. Classic flank from CoH1. In past wide arc of MG42 instapin both squads. No more super MG. :-(

Oorah and molotov is made versus MG. Raising cost rifle grenades and molotov maybie help. Molotov have long and epic animation and you have enough time react.
I play T1 start and i am using two squads penals versus MG. Classic flank from CoH1. In past wide arc of MG42 instapin both squads. No more super MG. :-(

How would raising the cost of rifle grenades and molotov improve the utility of the mg42??

You seem to forget flanking means from the side, not the front. Everybody agrees that if you outmaneuver a mg with multiple squads, they should win. However flanking a mg42 is no longer necessary unless it's to make yourself feel better. If 2 squads approach from the front, slightly offset it can't suppress them both. If one oorahs up to it from front, it cant keep them at distance to prevent a molotov...from the front. If one squads enters from the edge of its arc, even if it manages to point the mg at it because the horrid traverse speed,it will only get off non damaging, non suppressing bursts. The current arc makes the mg weaker because squads at the edge have little chance of being suppressed, any squads in the front will have plenty of time to run up, or directly through the mg42.

This super godlike mg42 narrative started from complaints about the suppression bulletin, and cons not doing damage when they did flank. After it got nerfed to weak sauce, is when your fairy-tale of mg42s being an unflankable, insta pinning super weapon came to life.

I'm only a half-decent WM player in vcoh, if even that (to be frank, my support weapon micro is pitiful, if anything, I'd build 4 Volks and try to make due with that). But really, yes, the MG42 takes a while to pin. Well...I don't get it, I'm an infantry player and when someone builds 2 or 3 MG42s, it's an absolute bitch to dislodge them from their current position--and "go to the other side of the map" isn't valid when most OH players I run into have an MG bunker up by the time I reach wherever it is. OK, the Maxim has a ridiculous setup/teardown time, but I usually pay attention to the moment that MG starts packing and either move an infantry unit in on the other side of its arc, or keep moving to end up outside of his new setup zone with the unit he was trying to hit with the MG. It's not rocket science. As for the MG42, again, there are some issues, but properly used, I don't see much of an issue with them.

Granted, I'm terrible with crews, so my MG42 usually ends up being useless in firefights, but set up BEHIND a grenadier or pioneer they'll work just fine if you aren't caught with your wiener schnitzel hanging out in the breeze. MG42s deployed in depth to cover one another are devastating. Grens with LMGs in support make it even sillier. I've lost count of the number of times, hell even in team games, where I initiate a 4 squad con flank and get caught by 1, 2, at one point 7 MGs that were just dumped out. Does it need some improving? Yes, probably. But not that drastically. I'd still take an MG42 over a Maxim any day.

Conscripts should not be able to charge an mg42 head on and win the engagement period.

I'm only a half-decent WM player in vcoh, if even that (to be frank, my support weapon micro is pitiful, if anything, I'd build 4 Volks and try to make due with that). But really, yes, the MG42 takes a while to pin. Well...I don't get it, I'm an infantry player and when someone builds 2 or 3 MG42s, it's an absolute bitch to dislodge them from their current position--and "go to the other side of the map" isn't valid when most OH players I run into have an MG bunker up by the time I reach wherever it is. OK, the Maxim has a ridiculous setup/teardown time, but I usually pay attention to the moment that MG starts packing and either move an infantry unit in on the other side of its arc, or keep moving to end up outside of his new setup zone with the unit he was trying to hit with the MG. It's not rocket science. As for the MG42, again, there are some issues, but properly used, I don't see much of an issue with them.

Granted, I'm terrible with crews, so my MG42 usually ends up being useless in firefights, but set up BEHIND a grenadier or pioneer they'll work just fine if you aren't caught with your wiener schnitzel hanging out in the breeze. MG42s deployed in depth to cover one another are devastating. Grens with LMGs in support make it even sillier. I've lost count of the number of times, hell even in team games, where I initiate a 4 squad con flank and get caught by 1, 2, at one point 7 MGs that were just dumped out. Does it need some improving? Yes, probably. But not that drastically. I'd still take an MG42 over a Maxim any day.

If people added a small comment saying: this is my experience while playing 3v3+ that would be great!!

Unless you are playing 2v2 Pripyat or Rzevh, theres no way you can´t punish someone going with pure mgs bunker spam.

MG42 has 1s slower suppression than Maxim.

That alone should be an obvious imbalance, especially when you add Oorah into that.

If anything, the HMG stats should be aligned so MG42 is the better suppressor, and Maxim the better DPS. Arc and setup time are asymmetrically ok, imo, between the two units.

That still leaves the 4/6man crew split however. In theory, the Molotovs forced displacement is a fair tradeoff vs RNades range, but the weak suppression coupled with Oorah is overarching that in practical ingame terms.

Its too easy to flank or even frontally charge MG42s. Low Suppression is the primary reason for that, but Oorah multiples that ease.

Furthermore the 4/6 man split makes the MG42 far more vulnerable to EVERTYTHING else, than what the Maxim is. The Maxim can not only quicker reposition out of them, but also soak 2mens worth more dmg before elimination.

I hear rumours of a suppression increase, and dps reduction for MG42, sounds good to me.

But the crew differential is still a persisting problem. MG42s simply die much more easier than Maxims. What is the justification for that?

Arc/setup time are fine asymmetrically.
DPS/Suppression is being apparently adjusted.
Cost is equal.
But why the crew difference?

Conscripts should not be able to charge an mg42 head on and win the engagement period.

Neither should grens or aasault grens versus Maxim. Period.

Did that make much sense?

MG42 has 1s slower suppression than Maxim.

That alone should be an obvious imbalance, especially when you add Oorah into that.

If anything, the HMG stats should be aligned so MG42 is the better suppressor, and Maxim the better DPS. Arc and setup time are asymmetrically ok, imo, between the two units.

That still leaves the 4/6man crew split however. In theory, the Molotovs forced displacement is a fair tradeoff vs RNades range, but the weak suppression coupled with Oorah is overarching that in practical ingame terms.

Its too easy to flank or even frontally charge MG42s. Low Suppression is the primary reason for that, but Oorah multiples that ease.

Furthermore the 4/6 man split makes the MG42 far more vulnerable to the various indirect fire options Sov has, than what the Maxim is. The Maxim can not only quicker reposition out of them, but also soak 2mens worth more dmg before elimination.

I hear rumours of a suppression increase, and dps reduction for MG42, sounds good to me.

But the crew differential is still a persisting problem. MG42s simply die much more easier than Maxims. What is the justification for that?

Having a wider arc of fire? Suppressing quicker, which is the tool why you use the MG anyway. < Saying that the MG42 should be suppressing quicker than an Maxim machinegun. That thing is stoneage. Stoooooneage.

Having a wider arc of fire? Suppressing quicker, which is the tool why you use the MG anyway. < Saying that the MG42 should be suppressing quicker than an Maxim machinegun. That thing is stoneage. Stoooooneage.

Cata, you missed this part:
"Arc/setup time are fine asymmetrically.
DPS/Suppression is being apparently adjusted.
Cost is equal.
But why the crew difference?"

Cata, you missed this part:
"Arc/setup time are fine asymmetrically.
DPS/Suppression is being apparently adjusted.
Cost is equal.
But why the crew difference?"

Having a 4 man squad on the maxim would make it extremelly easy to one-shot with a RNade, since they tend to clump it up.

Molotovs wont one shot your MG-42 squad, but forces you to usually retreat. A Rnade might not force an retreat at all, since you will probably have 2-3 men left with enough HP to stay effective until the threat has been dealt with. I think this is a very delicate matter and should be carefully balanced through several playtestings. I do feel though that the MG42 deserves a suppression increase. I dont know about the damage decrease though. Hit The Dirt is pretty good in this case. I guess we will have to wait and see whats coming up in the next patch.

Neither should grens or aasault grens versus Maxik. Period.

Did that make much sense?

As far as I know they won't win the engagement when they're within the maxims firing arc, so what's your point?

MG42 has 1s slower suppression than Maxim.
But why the crew difference?

Why have T-34 less armor then Pz4? In reality have the same or better. And .........
It is balance for game.

And MG42 can fire far, then have visibility. Dont leave your machinegun alone.
Yesterday i play with MG42 and if you have decent micro, then is it useful. I play old 2 grenadier + 2 MG in attack. MG cover by MG and grens in cover. Conscripts have no chance.
Very fun game. I start play as wermacht little more.

And yet again, the "dont leave MG42 alone" argument.

In my Sov play, if MG42 has Gren support, I just Oorah into or around the arc, and force the MG42 off. Then I fuck the Gren with 2x Cons. If its only MG42, I only need 1 Con to beat it, easily.

Whats the point of a slow positioning wide angle backline suppressor, if it CANT EVEN SUPPRESS.

The problem is not lack of support, the problem is the MG42 cant suppress in time.

I often deliberstely charge with Oorah and throw molotov. Instawin. If I see the MG42 in time, I just hit Oorah and run around the arc. Easy peasy.

And yet again, the "dont leave MG42 alone" argument.

In my Sov play, if MG42 has Gren support, I just Oorah into or around the arc, and force the MG42 off. Then I fuck the Gren with 2x Cons. If its only MG42, I only need 1 Con to beat it, easily.

Whats the point of a slow positioning wide angle backline suppressor, if it CANT EVEN SUPPRESS.

The problem is not lack of support, the problem is the MG42 cant suppress in time.

I often deliberstely charge with Oorah and throw molotov. Instawin. If I see the MG42 in time, I just hit Oorah and run around the arc. Easy peasy.

If MG have LOS, you cannt charge in arc. Post your replay and show. Perhaps i am wrong.

If there is multiple yellow cover you can but this usually happens late game when role of MG42 is meaningful.

MG42s meaningful in late game?

They become even worse in lategame due to being only 4 man, and dying like hell to all the explosive ordnance that prevails at that point.

Aradan, their LoS is the same as Maxim.

I swear, this thread isone of the most ridiculous in Coh2.org history.
Rarely have I seen faction priority be such a biased obstacle to unilateral balance.

Do ypu, or do you not, want better balance?

Crew difference

The only thing that justifies random squad wipes.

MG42s meaningful in late game?

They become even worse in lategame due to being only 4 man, and dying like hell to all the explosive ordnance that prevails at that point.

Aradan, their LoS is the same as Maxim.

I swear, this thread isone of the most ridiculous in Coh2.org history.
Rarely have I seen faction priority be such a biased obstacle to unilateral balance.

Do ypu, or do you not, want better balance?

As german i have no problem with maxim and as soviet i have no problem with MG42. DSHK is harder, but it is only good unit from this commander.

Calm and play more other side. I try it. :-)

As german i have no problem with maxim and as soviet i have no problem with MG42. DSHK is harder, but it is only good unit from this commander.

Calm and play more other side. I try it. :-)

Post your playercard.... I wanna see the games you have as ostheer

Crew difference

The only thing that justifies random squad wipes.

Good ironic point, and one Cata also put very succinctly in his.
A 4man Maxim crew, for example, is out of the question.

But Im not so sure that a 1.5 armor on Ost lower man crews isnt still out of the pale of reason. Or even a 1.25 armor.

Thing is, it matters little vs Molotov or explosive ordnance anyway, of which both bypass armor.
But it would take the edge off small arms a little bit.

Im not convinced that a better suppression is enough to offset the crew imbalance between these two core units.Its an additional element on a successful flank vs Ost, whereas a successful Ost flank of a Maxim is faced with killing off 6 models, at their faster resetup and RNade being useless at those close short range distances involved with otherwise killing off a Maxim.

On PaK/ZiS differential, the rate of fire advantage of Ost is answered by the Barrage on ZiS, but the crew count is unreciprocated. PaK really should he 6man, or increased armor.
On Mortar, I think Sov should have a greater AoE or, as Ive suggested before, a AoE radius beyond the dmg one that Suppresses. The crew count is "ok", but Sov 82mm is underperforming in terms of the units actual function.
On HMGs, increase Ost crew armor for better flank survival from small arms (without Molotov and Muni). And certainky increase its suppression. 1s slower than Maxim just doesnt cut it. It cant supppress Oorah u its in time, and really, even supporting Grens cant do enough smg to prevent the Oorah Con penetrationor flank of even the wider arc that MG42 has.