SU-85 vs Inf

So what, when Sov Armor has so strong AI.

- user A says Panther is too good vs infantry
- I say the panther is not that good vs infantry, it seems so because sov's infantry has no heavy AT
- Nullist writes a wall of text for no reason

@wooof

Maybe it's just me, but yeah, Panthers are one of the biggest headaches I run across. Unless I have 3 SU-85's ready for a Panther rush, they pretty much just stroll in and I can't do shit to them. As a matter of fact, a couple days ago I had 6 t-34's (yes, 6, I was popcapped and spammed the shit out of them. Seemed like a good idea at the time). VP's were ticking down and we needed to push. Germans had a few bunkers, so my AT guns were otherwise occupied with them at the main entrance point as my t-34's flanked in from the side, catching the 3 Panthers off guard. They reverse as my t-34 shots bounce off of the Panthers, and in the end I killed one Panther and lost 6 t-34's.

I just about punched my monitor at that point. Lesson was learned that day- anything but SU-85 spam or heavy tanks in team games is bound for loss, simply because of Panthers. At least it's that way for me in 90% of games I have. Almost every time, Panther spam. And no amount of AT guns/Guards with button can stop the shit.

Granted, this problem seems to be much less of a problem in 1v1 and 2v2, but I really don't want to just exclude 3v3+ in my playing. I like some variety, ya know?

Son you and me god both know you should have attempted to ram

I think it's just a lot of rng for both su85 and panthers, cuz I play both fairly evenly and I swear panthers snipe inf and sometimes kill twice with 1 shot more often than su85s. However panthers are way better at crushing inf and is way more effective anyway. Try that with the derpy su85 drivers, nope aint happening.

Son you and me god both know you should have attempted to ram

Yeah, afterwards I knew I should have. I figured 6 tanks focus firing one tank at a time would kill them fast enough to not need it. I was wrong

Sov Armor is categorically better vs AI, meaning they already integrally hurt the fuck out of Ost infantry AT option (meaning Shreks).

As far as ATGs go (as the only remaining pure MP AT option), the same remains true, not only because of Sov Armor AI impetus, but also because Ost ATGs only have 4 man crew (3 man even, in the case of the PaK43). Meaning Sov Armor clears PaK crews far more effectively than Ost Armor clears ZiS crews, on the whole.

The same is even more true of Guard/PGrens. Sov Armor seriously bleeds the hell out of PGrens, whereas Guard have more models and are faced with less Armor AI. Commensurately Shreks (at the enormous cost of an additional 120 Muni ONTOP of the equivalent 360 MP for PGrens/Guard) do more direct dmg, whereas Guard do slower dmg at a more moderate rate, but hey, they are 120 Muni cheaper. Button is there to provide a meeting point in equity for Muni cost.

This relative infantry AT capacity is already accounted for, asymmetrically.
If Sov had Shreks, Ost Armor would be much more fucked against that, than what Sov armor currently is against Shreks, due to lacking AI on those same armor units.

Do you see what I mean? Its already accounted for in the current balance.

1+

the panthers gun in worse in every way against infantry. more distance scatter, more angle scatter and less AOE. all of these combine to make the panther hit infantry far less often than the su85 does.

the only advantages it has are its turret and mgs. i wouldnt exactly say pathers kill infantry well though.

w8 a second you are actually telling me that a t4 very expensive classified by the game itself as a medium one , tank has less aoe on its gun than a relativley cheap dedicated tankdestroyer ??? I dont know if i should honestly express what i am thinking .

w8 a second you are actually telling me that a t4 very expensive classified by the game itself as a medium one , tank has less aoe on its gun than a relativley cheap dedicated tankdestroyer ??? I dont know if i should honestly express what i am thinking .

the panthers gun is identical to the elefant except for the range. that also means if both were shooting at infantry at 50m, the elefant is actually more accurate due to how scatter scales with range.

the panthers gun is identical to the elefant except for the range. that also means if both were shooting at infantry at 50m, the elefant is actually more accurate due to how scatter scales with range.

I d say the elephant has a lot more damage and penetration as well , anyway the fact that the panthers gun is so ineffective vs infantry should be changed

I d say the elephant has a lot more damage and penetration as well , anyway the fact that the panthers gun is so ineffective vs infantry should be changed

ah yea sorry, forgot to meantion the elefant does 320 compared to 160 for the panther. that makes no difference vs inf though. penetration is actually the same though.