Posts: 1382
You completely missed the point.
There is no counter play.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
Posts: 33
If anyone here still thinks that DAK AT loiter is OP/uncounterable, then you need to watch this video:
The only factions I see *actually* struggling against planes is *maybe* axis. But flak 88s actually shoot down planes so it's pretty even.
Posts: 1382
Maybe change it that if a plane with Paras/Falls get shot down, they drop where it was shot down and they loose 50% of their men.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
Posts: 109
Posts: 33
+1
However I've seen a paratrooper plane get shot down and the paras still dropped. Did the Axis players just not shoot it down fast enough? I know for a fact that falls do get instakilled by AA if in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I've just never seen it happen to paratroopers.
Posts: 109
Posts: 1382
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
Posts: 181
It seems that Brit AA is trash compared to the US M16 halftrack.
I was thinking that relic balanced each faction to have a similarly effective counter to planes.
Apparently 2 centaurs struggle to shoot down even 1 plane.
I guess that's one thing that the US does better than brits at least.
On a more serious note, that's even worse gameplay design than I thought. If there's no US player, then the brits are seemingly shit out of luck for AA.
| Health | 280 |
| Armour (Front/Side/Rear) | 10/5/1 |
| Target Size | 20 |
| Weapon | Crusader AA | CWT Truck AA | Flak 36 | US AA Halftrack | Wirbelwind |
| AA Range (Max/Far/Mid/Near) | 240/240/120/60 | 240/240/150/60 | 420/420/270/120 | 270/270/120/60 | 240/240/120/60 |
| Penetration Chance | 100% | 100% | 100% | 15%-100% | 100% |
| Tentative (In Magazine) DPS | 54.78 | 80.00 | 91.42 | 132 | 38.91 |
Posts: 319
Posts: 658
game is so bad
Posts: 1382
The US AA halftrack is also interesting in that it will tear aeroplanes apart against the rear (100% penetration chance) or side armour (30%-50% penetration chance) but is substantially worse against the front armour (15%-25% penetration chance).
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Agreed, they needed to delay the game for another 2 years with the state it is currently in.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 1382
What does not make any sense tho is how all the spams, emplacements and anti-all infantry come out of the woodworks now despite the fact that apparently there were top player illuminati giving feedback for years.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Posts: 1382
Rifle nades just means they definitely win engagements that are 50-50 and map control goes in the toilet.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Are squad response times just too slow to avoid this, even with such a large amount of telegraphing?
Posts: 658
You do realize no amount of in-house balancing will survive first week of release for an RTS game?
Developers have only so many brains, when you suddenly drop the game on 100k more, you'll see things that were overlooked earlier because of reasons.
Posts: 309 | Subs: 1
Counterplay = M18 AA halftrack
Shoots down AT loiter planes before they even fire a single shot. Even just ONE vet 0 halftrack.
Now, for Axis, I don't know if they can shoot planes down THAT fast, but I know flak 88 actually shoots down planes very well.
Posts: 1382
What about Brits? Their AA is seriously lacking.
The neat thing about German emplacement spam is that they will also kill any plane (or air drop) basically instantly, negating most of the counterplay as well!
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
Posts: 309 | Subs: 1
I did mention this in post #107. I was a bit naive about Brits AA and had just assumed that theirs was as effective as the US' AA was.
I just did some testing, and here's what I found:
If you saw my video with the M16 AA halftrack, I put pretty much everything in the same spot, but switched out the US vehicles for a Churchill, Churchill Black Prince, 15Cwt, and a Crusader II, all equidistant from each other, and then I switched out the M16 AA halftrack for two 15Cwt (yes, two, not one. ) AA halftracks. I also tried with one 15Cwt and a Crusader AA tank. It produced pretty similar results.
It ended up being that the Axis planes were shot down *after* the first strafe. ((It also seemed that the planes didn't choose the same target, and instead opted to spread the damage across multiple targets. The "counterplay" is similar to soviet AT overwatch, except if it was insane.))
Better than the planes being able to loiter the sky for 60 seconds (if there was no AA), but certainly not ideal for the kind of damage that the strafe can do so soon after the flares drop.
I would like to point out the fact that the callin is 225 muni and that the brits have access to high HP tanks that can actually take a pass from a stuka strafe and survive, so I think it makes logical sense that the brits have AA that isn't as effective as the US's is.
However, the ability in its current state is really too much.
If it is to stay this deadly, then it had ought to come out much slower and be more of an area denial tool, maybe with more planes that do less damage individually but are harder to shoot down because there are more of them. (And obviously the fact that TWO AA halftracks are needed to actually shoot down the planes within a reasonable timeframe.)
If its to continue to come out that fast after flares, then I think it needs to be less deadly.
Yep.
P.S. - if you were wondering, a single 15Cwt AA halftrack shoots down one plane after a single strafe, but seemingly struggles to shoot down the second before it's able to make a second strafe.
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