Making APCBC-HE more player friendly

Name: "28.3kg APCBC-HE Shells"
Duration: 35 Seconds
Cost: 60 Munitions

-25% reload speed.
Projectiles will penetrate all world objects

Now what happen when using this ability is:
After around 4-5 JT will truck and fire on visible targets even behind shot blockers at a lower rate of fire.

It is possible to get around 3 rounds out this ability but not very probable.

The problems are that during the preparation time the unit will not track the target and to make if user order an attack on the target the unit will try to move in a position with a clear line of site.

Oddly enough the similar ability available to 17p does not seem to suffer from a similar issue (nor does it seem to have slower ROF)

In order for a user to get most of this ability one has to first align the unit manually and then activate the ability or wait preparation time and let the unit autofire.

That makes the ability which comes with reload penalty confusing to use.

My suggestion would be that the "effects" of world piercing should start with the activation of the ability without the "preparation" delay allow player to aim from the start of the ability or for the unit to acquire target from the start. It seem that it should be possible as it for 17p

Alternatively it could be replaced with a singe shot.

You mean just make concrete round but better for the JT.... Sounds like a terrible idea.

You mean just make concrete round but better for the JT.... Sounds like a terrible idea.

Read the title and comparison with 17p ability.

I did, and the game doesn't need a TD firing more than 1 shot through objects. The Pak 43 fills this role already permanently with no ability required and the 17 pounder can be destroyed outside of its range by the JT and Ele. Again a pretty terrible idea.

I did, and the game doesn't need a TD firing more than 1 shot through objects. The Pak 43 fills this role already permanently with no ability required and the 17 pounder can be destroyed outside of its range by the JT and Ele. Again a pretty terrible idea.

1) You are using balance argument (than do not even correct) this is about usability and consistency not about balance

2) JT can already fire more than one shot thru shot blockers as is

3) You have already rejected the 1 shot alternative as terrible idea, try to make up your mind.

The game is built on asymmetry not consistency.

Your idea wouldn't be an targeted area ability either by suggesting this ability would track (not truck) targets through buildings unlike all the abilities you are claiming consistency with. The only unit that would track like this at the moment would be the Pak 43 with vision of the target opposite an obstruction (a static emplacement). So again, all facets of this idea are terrible for a mobile TD.

The game is built on asymmetry not consistency.

That is completely off mark (and false).

I did not ask for performance but for behavior consistency which as I have already point to you is irrelevant to symmetrical or asymmetrical balance.

Your idea wouldn't be an targeted area ability either by suggesting this ability would track (not truck) targets through buildings unlike all the abilities you are claiming consistency with. The only unit that would track like this at the moment would be the Pak 43 with vision of the target opposite an obstruction (a static emplacement). So again, all facets of this idea are terrible for a mobile TD.

Since it seem you have missed the first time allow me to explain again:

1) The ability already tracks but only after 4-5 secs after activation

2) The 17p AP round ability which is closest thing to APCBC-HE, and allows the unit to fire thru world objects does to track target for the start of the ability.

3) The ability are similar and cost the same only the 17p's does not come with reload penalty so there are inconsistency both in performance and behavior.

Now pls lose the forum warrior mentality and stop trying prove that you are "right".

Forum warrior? You are trying to add a static emplacements "behavior" to a mobile TD. This is a bad idea plain and simple. To make it a one shot thing as well would mean almost a copy paste of concrete round which is just silly. It is by no means false that coh is built on asymmetry of abilities.

Forum warrior? You are trying to add a static emplacements "behavior" to a mobile TD. This is a bad idea plain and simple. To make it a one shot thing as well would mean almost a copy paste of concrete round which is just silly. It is by no means false that coh is built on asymmetry of abilities.

Ok your entitled to believe that removing the 4-5 sec delay before the unit becomes aware it can fire behind shot blocker is a bad idea.

Since you do not really have any argument about it and at this point you simply trying to win an argument I have no interest is continuing.
Have a nice one.

The fact you see an argument is an issue, along with coming out with names as well. You have +12,000 posts here. Anyone is as welcome to the forum as you are its not an argument.

Regardless the JT has been given its ability of a barrage, the ISU has its concrete round, the PAK 43 shoots through all shot blockers at all times. We do not need to blend their behaviors as they each perform their tasks perfectly.

The JT/Ele/ISU already stagnate gameplay I don't see how adding this kind of ability would to anything but remove a counter play to the unit such as flanking via shot blockers. Hence a frankly terrible idea.

You can say have a nice one to anyone you like and think they have to cease expression of opinion but it doesn't work like that when you create threads on ideas that would affect the game we all play. Not that I see it as likely in any realm the unit will see any further changes.

2) The 17p AP round ability which is closest thing to APCBC-HE, and allows the unit to fire thru world objects does to track target for the start of the ability.

3) The ability are similar and cost the same only the 17p's does not come with reload penalty so there are inconsistency both in performance and behavior.

Inconsistency? It's a stationary AT gun vs an armored heavy TD. There's a few other differences too btw

JT is far from weak so I don't see the problem

Now pls lose the forum warrior mentality and stop trying prove that you are "right".

Oh come on

Just Dont....
by doing that, JT become Pak 43 on wheels, 3 shot = 1 tank.

Ask for "consistency" between a supper heavy TD and a static emplacement ?

For those who have not read this thread carefully the post is talking about make the behavior of the abilities consistent not performance.

It about how one uses the ability.

If it was about performance it would be asking for the reload penalty to be removed.

A player is not in anyway aware that if he gives an order to attack at target in the first second of activation the unit will try to move to position of clear line of sight. This make the ability confusing to use.

How a 17p and JT compare is irrelevant so is weather JT is strong or weak.

For those who have not read this thread carefully the post is talking about make the behavior of the abilities consistent not performance.

It about how one uses the ability.

If it was about performance it would be asking for the reload penalty to be removed.

A player is not in anyway aware that if he gives an order to attack at target in the first second of activation the unit will try to move to position of clear line of sight. This make the ability confusing to use.

How a 17p and JT compare is irrelevant so is weather JT is strong or weak.

No, this is player mistake. not game mechanics.

No, this is player mistake. not game mechanics.

Why?

Regarding the topic:
I have not used the ability for quite some time, but if it works as Vipper said, it is quite unintuitive.

The easy and uninteresting fix would be to create a single skill shot similar to the ISU.
The delay at the beginning should stay though. The JT is probably the single best TD in the whole game. It should not be able to instantly engage in any fight 70 meters around it. Positioning is key on heavies and super heavies, if your opponent manages to play around shot blockers or catch you out of position, you shouldn't be able to negate all that instantly

No, this is player mistake. not game mechanics.

This is not a player mistake.
The ability says that shots pierce world objects. The JT apparently also auto attacks through world objects by itself, why the heck should I expect the JT to get a clear line of fire if I order it to attack a specific unit?

Ah so the auto-pathing at the ability start is a bug and not intended? That explains a lot and also a big reason why I dislike the unit, as it's so unwieldy. I'd agree with an insta-world piercing effect at start, but keep the delay before firing (Is that a forced reload in disguise?).

Ah so the auto-pathing at the ability start is a bug and not intended? That explains a lot and also a big reason why I dislike the unit, as it's so unwieldy. I'd agree with an insta-world piercing effect at start, but keep the delay before firing (Is that a forced reload in disguise?).

Delay before firing is justified and it there probably so that one does not use the ability to double tap enemy vehicles.

It is also common in other similar abilities.

I would guess that it is not a "force reload" but it that is closer to "aim time" delay.

How a 17p and JT compare is irrelevant so is weather JT is strong or weak.

You are the one who brought up the 17pdr....

In your first post you said to remove the preparation delay, which sounds like making it fire faster. You can write more carefully too