Ostheer Accuracy

SS are relative to the topic because they have a huge impact on Ost being able to get that first shot to demonstrate the "terrible accuracy" as OP believes. Every time you can't refute a point you cry that things have gone off topic, because you are unbelievably stupid.

His next move will be saying that you are going for him personally (event this post of me can also be quoted as a personal comment). Just save your time, this thread is meaningless anyway.

Stats do not back up your claim:

Elefant does damage 300, T-70 has 400 HP

he did not claim that was a full hp t70.

why not? i was told the 222 has a huge impact and gives wehr a big advantage.

Okay?

i can say that in none of those games i felt stressed unlike wehr matches,

Again how is this meaningful? How you felt during an arbitrary set of 5 games? Is that suppose to pass as a balance argument, cause it doesn't...

Stats do not back up your claim:

Elefant does damage 300, T-70 has 400 HP

In addition spotting scopes provide stationary vision while T-70 can move in reckon mode (can also cloak with AT doctrine).

sight radius from t70's recon mode is slightly bigger then from vet0 222 (52 vs 50). Same situation when both vetted.
Also Spotting scoped provide minimum 70 sight

Spotting scopes should not be upgrade-able on recon units. It should be the case of "You don't want 222 to spot but want to have some extra vision on non recon units? Here". Upgrading the P4 removes the pintle upgrade and allows P4 to spot even though it's not a recon unit. Loses some AI power in return.
T70 recon mode disables the gun completely. Don't know why spotting scopes have no downside...

Spotting scopes should not be upgrade-able on recon units. It should be the case of "You don't want 222 to spot but want to have some extra vision on non recon units? Here". Upgrading the P4 removes the pintle upgrade and allows P4 to spot even though it's not a recon unit. Loses some AI power in return.
T70 recon mode disables the gun completely. Don't know why spotting scopes have no downside...

ss are tied to doctrine, t70 isnt

Spotting scopes should not be upgrade-able on recon units.

T70 recon mode disables the gun completely. Don't know why spotting scopes have no downside...

Because they aren't stock and take up an entire commander ability slot, unlike the T-70's ability.

Their downside is only becoming active while being stationary, which isn't something you want to do with your tanks in CoH2's highly mobile gameplay. So unlike abilities like the T-70 recon mode, you can only use them defensively. And in order to be powerful (arguably overpowered but that's up for debate) on recon units (222/251) you need to get them to vet 2 and 3 first to get any additional benefits over regular vehicles, so there is a significant investment involved and you need to keep them alive. Without their veterancy sight bonus, spotting scopes offer no special benefits for recon units compared to regular vehicles.

Because they aren't stock and take up an entire commander ability slot, unlike the T-70's ability.

Their downside is only becoming active while being stationary, which isn't something you want to do with your tanks in CoH2's highly mobile gameplay. So unlike abilities like the T-70 recon mode, you can only use them defensively. And in order to be powerful (arguably overpowered but that's up for debate) on recon units (222/251) you need to get them to vet 2 and 3 first to get any additional benefits over regular vehicles, so there is a significant investment involved and you need to keep them alive. Without their veterancy sight bonus, spotting scopes offer no special benefits for recon units compared to regular vehicles.

Being stationary is not a downside for OST, not really. 222 can easily be vetted up to 3 in 3v3+. Either by harassing on some wide open maps like steppes or by shooting down planes.
E8 takes up a command slot and is still a useless tank in all but 1v1s (as far as I see, it's great there). Spotting scopes are not really used in 1v1s since being static there is a no-no for any faction. Although can help when expecting an attack. I've often seen vetted 222s parked in safe spots just spotting with 70 range. And chasing it can be disastrous:
a) you're diving a light vehicle with 18/16 target size
b) you're diving against a faction that has stock access to mines, widest arc MG and longest snare (aside from fussies).
Probably the best scout mechanic that was implemented was in Age of Mythology, Atlantis faction those Oracle guys. When they stood still, the vision would be improved in increments. Move and you lose all of it and have to start again. That way you can't just move a bit and stand still again and have 70 vision.
All you said is legit, but stretched. There are plenty of command abilities that take up a slot and are near useless in both axis and allies.

Rifle company new halftrack (don't know why you didn't add the mortar ht but ok)
Cav rifles being 1CP
OST reserve armies, urban pgrens being 2cp (never should have existed and instead should have been some other pgren version)
Soviets with the no-income booby traps, conscript/penal repair tactics, partisans, 45mm at gun

Just to name a few. The RAM + offmap combo has been nerfed although it was doctrinal and the only way soviets can kill something extra heavy, not to mention the 99% chance of losing the T34. Now, soviets can only kill extra heavies in teamgames if they coordinate well AF.
What are you explanations for those?

Just L2P .
how about another faction's ATG constantly misses, bounce ... like 57mm, Rakketen ?

ss are tied to doctrine, t70 isnt

222 isn't either

ss are tied to doctrine, t70 isnt

a commander ability that grants you free vision for the rest of the game regardless on which vehicle you put it

Because they aren't stock and take up an entire commander ability slot, unlike the T-70's ability.

Their downside is only becoming active while being stationary, which isn't something you want to do with your tanks in CoH2's highly mobile gameplay. So unlike abilities like the T-70 recon mode, you can only use them defensively. And in order to be powerful (arguably overpowered but that's up for debate) on recon units (222/251) you need to get them to vet 2 and 3 first to get any additional benefits over regular vehicles, so there is a significant investment involved and you need to keep them alive. Without their veterancy sight bonus, spotting scopes offer no special benefits for recon units compared to regular vehicles.

a commander slot that grants you free vision for the rest of the game regardless on which vehicle you put it [2]


and with a fucking elefant or lefh-18 to boot


30 munition must be extremely expensive too, damn

even your regular armor can have it, you dont need recon units

a commander ability that grants you free vision for the rest of the game regardless on which vehicle you put it



a commander slot that grants you free vision for the rest of the game regardless on which vehicle you put it [2]


and with a fucking elefant or lefh-18 to boot

same can be said about the nondoctrinal t70 with the katyuscha on the boot, or even any other drop

Vet 0 t70 with "recon mode" vs vet 0 sdkfz 222

Vet 3 t70 with "recon mode" vs vet 2 sdkfz 222


Red units OP as always

Vet 0 t70 with "recon mode" vs vet 0 sdkfz 222
....
Red units OP as always

Now do the same test M3A1 light scout car and Sdkfz 222 scout car

(and no Ostheer do not get a light tank)

Now do the same test M3A1 light scout car and Sdkfz 222 scout car

Lmao, you mean the one that has almost no utility vs OST, even if went for penal build?

Lmao, you mean the one that has almost no utility vs OST, even if went for penal build?

So being able to spot (and cap) is "no utility" according to you, for reckon vehicle...Yea that make sense (not really)...

You are compared the sight of the T-70 which is best light tank in game with the sight of reckon vehicle and proved that T-70 is not only the best light tank in game but also has the extra utility of spotting as good a reckon vehicle (and also capping).

What exactly was that you where trying to point out?

So being able to spot is "no utility" according to you for reckon vehicle...Yea that make sense (not really)...

You are compared the sight of the T-70 which is best light tank in game with the sight of reckon vehicle and proved that T-70 is not only the best light tank in game but also has the extra utility of spotting as good a reckon vehicle and also cap.

What exactly was that you where trying to point out?

Donnie was complaining about "non doc vision from t70", so that's why I posted this, just to show that 222 is also non doc and has comparable sight range.
But... I have no idea why you even brought up m3, since it has no dps on its own, has no HP either and requires T1, which kind of different start from safe t2, while as OST you build 222 regardless from T2 building. at this rate we might as well bring up mortar flare from SOV mortar that almost nobody builds and snipers.

Donnie was complaining about "non doc vision from t70", so that's why I posted this, just to show that 222 is also non doc and has comparable sight range.

It seem you got that the other way round, it is not Donnie complaining about the "non doc vision from t70" but Katukov complaining about the doctrinal spotting scopes although Sander93's long response.

But... I have no idea why you even brought up m3, since it has no dps on its own, has no HP either and requires T1, which kind of different start from safe t2, while as OST you build 222 regardless from T2 building. at this rate we might as well bring up mortar flare from SOV mortar that almost nobody builds and snipers.

I think we can agree that Soviet have plenty of stock recon options some of which you already mentioned.

Your description of m3a1 for some strange reason is flawed:
M3A3 has plenty of DPS on its own for its timing/class
M3A3 can survive an ATG shot so again it has plenty of HP for its timing/class