OKW Flak HQ Lethality

Would love it if more people who think the unit is fine could voice their reasoning.

It's static, so any AT-gun can kill it and it's prone to indirect fire.
Doesn't reliable pen medium armor, so a medium or heavier could kill it.
OKW loses 80% of its tech if its killed.

Less on point but it doesn't seemed to be a problem in the past years and as far as I know it hasn't changed.


Solution imo could be to make the building AA-only, but then OKW should be compensated somewhere else.


That's what I think, but what's your proposed solution? (sorry if I didn't catch it along the way)

It's not really OP. Can be toxic on some maps, eg. placing it defensively on Lienne forest on the right side of the bottom fuel can easily lock out any infantry advances. Also it's quite far from indirects like pak howi and mortars. Also, the other approach is through a narrow gap inside a forest, which can be a death trap. Combine it with it's lethal cannon (it often wipes a whole squad in 3-4 shots), it can be a menace. On the other hand, OKW will invest into defending it, so that gives you some breathing room.

It all depends on the map. The Schwerer is not really OP, being static and unable to ground target. It's strong on large maps where you can place it defensively, making it only killable by a deep dive (which is in itself risky) or offmap (lots of muni investment).
If I was forced to change it, I'd reduce lethality and increase suppression. So that it will not just straight wipe in a couple of seconds, but rather suppress. I'd also make it scale with range, less suppression and lethality at max range, more so the closer you are. I'd also increase close range penetration if need be, so that if you run around it with a t34, you won't be as safe as you think. And it wouldn't just instantly suppress/kill at max range if you run into it
I've destroyed many a schwerer as USF. It usually takes about 5 barrages from 2 pak howis to kill it (I always play dual pak howi, so 2 barrages from both, which is 4, and then one more from any pak howi).
I've also had many a schwerer destroyed by brits. But as I play OKW only in custom games, I always place the schwerer near the frontlines for the shi** and giggles.

It's definitely not OP. Wipey and strong, but not OP due to the sole fact that it's static.

Cancerous on teamgame maps like Redball, Lienne, etc. but quite normal on 1v1 maps and some 2v2.

In most teamgames scenarios, you want to scout ahead with infantry as you will almost exclusively encounter a raketen/pak wall, especially in 3v3+. So you want to scout and push with infantry first, which can instantly be shut down by a single schwerer. Then you know there is a schwerer and you know that you can't just push, so you invest time and money into destroying it first, which makes you vulnerable to pushes. On the other hand, if you manage to destroy the Schwerer, you demoralize most opponents and buy yourself some time. Against well coordinated opponents, schwerer will be most toxic and well placed and defended, denying infantry/LV advances. Against randoms, destroy it and one will rage, even if top 20.

Solution imo could be to make the building AA-only, but then OKW should be compensated somewhere else.

You mean like getting a stock HMG? OKW was launched with no mg34 stock, it was doctrinal. People complained, so they got one stock

Flak HQ isn't really OP but the gun should really have a popcost. Make the gun a free upgrade after panzer authorization. Only cost is 5 pop or something close to that

I dont see why OKW even needs the flak HQ anymore, but if it's not going anywhere at least give it a popcost

You mean like getting a stock HMG? OKW was launched with no mg34 stock, it was doctrinal. People complained, so they got one stock

Flak HQ isn't really OP but the gun should really have a popcost. Make the gun a free upgrade after panzer authorization. Only cost is 5 pop or something close to that

I dont see why OKW even needs the flak HQ anymore, but if it's not going anywhere at least give it a popcost

Why? this is not op as you have said it.

Not exactly related but does anyone know how much of the schwer HQ's health an IL2 bombing strike takes out?

Not exactly related but does anyone know how much of the schwer HQ's health an IL2 bombing strike takes out?

Around 45~65 health depend on how many bomb hit it.

Anything that shuts down a large area with suppression is quite annoying. Makes it hard to run my commando tactics once it's up. I like to smoke it and set demo charges with paras for lols

Why? this is not op as you have said it.

Those things aren't mutually exclusive. Anything that can have that large an impact on the map should have a popcost

Try to explain why OKW still needs the flak hq in the first place?

Also I'm under the opinion MG bunkers and FPs should have a popcost as well. Anything on the map that fights should have a popcost (things like mines don't count)

Always fun calling in a partisan or inf commandos only to have them one shot by the flak hq.

You mean like getting a stock HMG? OKW was launched with no mg34 stock, it was doctrinal. People complained, so they got one stock

Flak HQ isn't really OP but the gun should really have a popcost. Make the gun a free upgrade after panzer authorization. Only cost is 5 pop or something close to that

I dont see why OKW even needs the flak HQ anymore, but if it's not going anywhere at least give it a popcost

Tbh I'd sooner have the gun require muni than pop cap. Ukf have their base howis but don't require pop for them, I'd much sooner see the flak truck pay per use.

I want to make it clear that while I think the damage is over the top, my biggest problem, more than anything, is how annoying these quasi-empalcements make the game to play. UKF got their emplacements rightfully changed, and I think now that OKW has seen so many changes since its inception, this should get changed, too. I'm totally fine giving OKW other tweaks to compensate - ANYTHING so the rules of the game don't get broken whenever this thing is set down.

Tbh I'd sooner have the gun require muni than pop cap. Ukf have their base howis but don't require pop for them, I'd much sooner see the flak truck pay per use.

I'd be good with that. If the base howies didn't already have to pay per use I'd say they need a popcost as well

You mean like getting a stock HMG? OKW was launched with no mg34 stock, it was doctrinal. People complained, so they got one stock

Didn't know this, don't quite see how this applies to the flak HQ tho.

Flak HQ isn't really OP but the gun should really have a popcost. Make the gun a free upgrade after panzer authorization. Only cost is 5 pop or something close to that

Agreed, but this goes for bunkers/fighting pits aswell, and I'd say 3 pop.



The FlaK HQ already got nerfed by removing it's default AA option (which turned into the activated ability).

Didn't know this, don't quite see how this applies to the flak HQ tho.

It applies to your point, you said they'd need to be compensated in some other way. One could say they already have, they were given another tool for defending territory that they didn't have when they were designed with the flak hq in mind

Flak HQ isn't really OP but the gun should really have a popcost. Make the gun a free upgrade after panzer authorization. Only cost is 5 pop or something close to that

I dont see why OKW even needs the flak HQ anymore, but if it's not going anywhere at least give it a popcost

The flak gun always seemed like a part of the package, because of how expensive Shwere is. E.g. SOVs need 210 fuel (with AT nade/molly) to get to T4 and OST needs 175/210 for phase 2 and 3 respectively. OKW needs 240 fuel just to get to armor tech or 210 to get obers. So if you remove the gun, the fuel price should go down as well, imo.

Also, it's part of the design (also why OKW doesn't have fuel/muni caches).

Also, it's part of the design (also why OKW doesn't have fuel/muni caches).

It was designed when OKW had a resource penalty. Also, they have salvage. Not saying it's as good as caches, but I can throw bad reasons for design choices out, too.

OKW needs 240 fuel just to get to armor tech or 210 to get obers. So if you remove the gun, the fuel price should go down as well, imo.

Why is that?

truck(15 * 2) + medic upgrade(10) + upgrade(20) + medic(10) + flakHQ(90) + upgrade(30)
= 190

or If you go tier 2(45)
= 195

240 is I guess if you go both (which is very rare case in 1v1, unless you decided to go KT) but I wouldn't consider this as a base tech buildup cost because it is not optimal way.

That's like saying USF requires 260 fuel to tech up to the major
for
grenade(15) + weapon rack(15) + lieu(35) + cap(35) + tech upgrade(20 * 2) + major(120).

We both know this doesn't make sense.

USF's optimal(and playable) fuel cost is 15(weapon or grenade) + lieu(35) + tech upgrade(20) + major(120)
= 190
w/o any vehicle. It's almost identical to each other.

OKW needs 240 fuel just to get to armor tech or 210 to get obers. So if you remove the gun, the fuel price should go down as well, imo.

240? Not sure why you're including all 3 techs, you only need 2 to get armor

Not to mention, the flak HQ has different units in it then when OKW was launched

Also, it's part of the design (also why OKW doesn't have fuel/muni caches).

They also use to have lower income. And they didn't have an HMG or a stock medium tank. Volks used to have 1 shreck instead of Stgs

Their original design is nothing like the current form

They also use to have lower income. And they didn't have an HMG or a stock medium tank. Volks used to have 1 shreck instead of Stgs

Their original design is nothing like the current form

What I meant is; not all factions can be compared and every faction has something that seem to be OP where it really isn't that big of a deal.

As stated earlier; if the Flak HQ is used aggresively it can easily be destroyed by a AT-gun, mortar, artillery piece or off-map ability (same way as Axis have to deal with the BOFORs).