USA scotts (M8A1)

Looking for your Opinions. Pls vote.
Cheers!

If you have other ideas, pls write them here down

No point to ask this question in here .... Same result would come If I asked some dentistry questions in a monkey pavilion .... 99% players here on forum have no clue about the game and another 90% did not see a tourney at all .... really no point ...

I got a good laugh from the voting results

How the F are pathfinders OP??? They havent been touched in ages

Especially ones on airborne, recon support Paths are better... Paths only do well if they shooting with other units, on their own they are useless (which they should be)

Probably because they spot everything? Probably because the can hide? Probably because of their beacons? Probably because they can even pick up abandoned weapons even though other units can't, when upgraded. So I'd personally rather nerf them, instead of the Scotts. Might also be a reason everybody picks them nowadays.

I'm an axis player though, so I might be a bit biased. But I think that also goes for the people that would not change anything or even buff them.

Path weapon crews no longer provided extra vision.
Also stormtrooper, commando, jaeger squad can do the same. After all, why nerf them because top tier team/user used it so well ?

Probably because they spot everything? Probably because the can hide? Probably because of their beacons? Probably because they can even pick up abandoned weapons even though other units can't, when upgraded. So I'd personally rather nerf them, instead of the Scotts. Might also be a reason everybody picks them nowadays.

I'm an axis player though, so I might be a bit biased. But I think that also goes for the people that would not change anything or even buff them.

I'm very confused why all of the sudden all the talk about pathfinder is comming out. We already have superior version of it on OKW(JLI) that has not been touched for ages despite argument about its raw stat.

I'm very confused why all of the sudden all the talk about pathfinder is comming out. We already have superior version of it on OKW(JLI) that has not been touched for ages despite argument about its raw stat.

They're both nonsense units, but Pathfinders have weapon racks.

I'm very confused why all of the sudden all the talk about pathfinder is comming out. We already have superior version of it on OKW(JLI) that has not been touched for ages despite argument about its raw stat.

I'm also very shocked about suddenly paths are OP. I didn't watch the tourney in question but it sounds like it's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction and was executed well.

Axis, OKW in particular should never complain about having vision problems or allies having vision OP units. Pathfinders maybe need a slight veterancy xp nerf, but other than that, they are completely normal and completely overshadowed by JLI

I'm not complaining about vision in particular. I'm personally complain about synergy and snowballing pathfinders create in teamgames, especially in 4v4.

Sure JLI in a vacum as a combat unit is for sure better, but I never said that paths are OP as a unit. Is the fact that, if you have teammate supporting you you can afford early forward reinforcement and have 0 CP unit which can fight almost like an elite unit in early game (against what enemy can throw at you) then lockdown the area, then snowball into scotts and have vision syneregy.

I mean, sure 4v4 is full of cheese and broken combinations, but Paths right now, imo, is the only cheese awaible from the start of the game and pretty much has no punishing mechanics if played right.

Simular to Pfuss G43 blobs, which are BS on its own right, but at least you have this small window of opportunity when you at least have a chance of beating them back before they start getting out G43 grades.

Against Pathfinders, unless you outplay USF to almost a GG state early, there is litteraly no way you can punish them in early game, since Ost nor OKW are capable of pushing Paths supported by another player. You can just try to outsit them and wait untill LVs, but USF player will just paradop AT gun so you dont even have window before AT gun reach the front line.

I myself played with randoms and premades in 3v3\4v4, against lvl 16-19 USF players using this strat, played myself as USF using this strat against lvl 15-18 Axis. Sure I'm not a super uber competitive pro gamer, but still this is very-very oppressive meta strategy and its very hard to deal with it if the USF player know what he is doing. More often then not, its either RNG\Teammate or USF player fuck up which allows you to fight it back.

My point is, Allies need some cheesy cheese in order to stay competitive in 3v3\4v4, but at least other cheese strategies arent awaible from the start and they dont cover you pretty much from start till late game.

I'm not complaining about vision in particular. I'm personally complain about synergy and snowballing pathfinders create in teamgames, especially in 4v4.

Sure JLI in a vacum as a combat unit is for sure better, but I never said that paths are OP as a unit. Is the fact that, if you have teammate supporting you you can afford early forward reinforcement and have 0 CP unit which can fight almost like an elite unit in early game (against what enemy can throw at you) then lockdown the area, then snowball into scotts and have vision syneregy.

I mean, sure 4v4 is full of cheese and broken combinations, but Paths right now, imo, is the only cheese awaible from the start of the game and pretty much has no punishing mechanics if played right.

Simular to Pfuss G43 blobs, which are BS on its own right, but at least you have this small window of opportunity when you at least have a chance of beating them back before they start getting out G43 grades.

Against Pathfinders, unless you outplay USF to almost a GG state early, there is litteraly no way you can punish them in early game, since Ost nor OKW are capable of pushing Paths supported by another player. You can just try to outsit them and wait untill LVs, but USF player will just paradop AT gun so you dont even have window before AT gun reach the front line.

I myself played with randoms and premades in 3v3\4v4, against lvl 16-19 USF players using this strat, played myself as USF using this strat against lvl 15-18 Axis. Sure I'm not a super uber competitive pro gamer, but still this is very-very oppressive meta strategy and its very hard to deal with it if the USF player know what he is doing. More often then not, its either RNG\Teammate or USF player fuck up which allows you to fight it back.

My point is, Allies need some cheesy cheese in order to stay competitive in 3v3\4v4, but at least other cheese strategies arent awaible from the start and they dont cover you pretty much from start till late game.

Because 2xpio + 2xHmg42 isn't a cheese strategy you can pull from the start giving you superior vision and denying any infantry play (only countered by pathfinder using the superior vision)? Giving you plenty of time to rush T2 and get a 222 and Pgrens before your opponent can manage to properly counter your HMGs.

2xPio + 2xKubel isn't a cheese strategy you can pull from the start as well giving you extreme pushing power with minimum manpower impact if you manage to micro well your Kubels? Usually serving a JLI spam afterward or a 221 to roam freely.

JLI aren't in a doctrine with an Howitzer and a At loiter? Like you can do better and safer than Path&Scott+p47. Isn't an even more powerful cheese to be able to self spot for your howi?

You see a Pathfinder, skip your 4th gren or pfuss and adapt as much as anyone has to adapt to any cheese from any faction.

In reality, If today I abuse Pathfinder its also because of the Pio&HMG rush meta giving you superior vision and superior firepower on any map from 2vs2 to 4vs4.
If I abuse Pathfinder its also because of the Pfuss meta giving you superior vision range and killing power for a cheap 80 munition cost or JLI spam or even Kubel spam to which Pathfinder are better to fight than riflemen.

At the moment the OP faction in any game mode is Ostheer but little we see from the balance team to tackle this situation, we had to have the most important tournament organizer to ban Ostruppen from his multiple evens to finally see the balance team, after more than a year, nerfing them into a correct state.
But here they come again to nerf a unit that do good vs current meta because they themselve refuse to find solutions and adapt.

Path weapon crews no longer provided extra vision.
Also stormtrooper, commando, jaeger squad can do the same. After all, why nerf them because top tier team/user used it so well ?

Agreed with this. Rather than commend people for playing well the reaction instead is "OMG USF Won lets find something to nerf" which is why we have a double standard in this game.

Why is it ok for Brumbar to Self Spot Solo with Spotting Scopes and Barrage Team weapons but Pathfinders and M8 Scotts (2 seperate units) doing the same thing is heresy and needs to be nerfed?

Why is it ok for Stuka/Panzerwerfer/Katyusha to outright delete entire Armies but M8 Scott doing damage to MG-42 is not acceptable and needs to be nerfed into the ground.

This double standard needs to end and instead balance should be based on the role of a unit and how it performs in its role.

A Good example of this is MG-42 and Maxim. Both different units that perform a similar role of suppression platform with clear differences between the two units but both units are able to do well in that role respective to the armies that they are a part of.


The problem with the M8 Scott is that it tries to be too many things at once without any real focus. Is it a Mini Brumbar or is it an artillery piece? It tries to do both while not being good at either. What is the exact role of this unit? It lacks an identity which is its biggest problem. Rather than try to be like the Brumbar which the USF already has with the 105 Dozer for that role, the M8 Scott should be converted into a dedicated artillery piece with similar efficacy levels of other artillery pieces like the Katyusha/Werfer/Stuka.

This means either flat out removing the Auto Attack Portion of the vehicle or adding some restriction to the units Auto Attack. Personally I would rather go with the removal of the Auto Attack Entirely with straight buffs to the Barrage. Historically M8 Scotts had access to High Explosive Rounds, White Phospherous and had limited use cases as a tank destroyer. It mostly used White Phospherous so removal of the Auto Attack with greater barrage range and white phospherous attached would be my personal choice as it would seperate it from the Priest instead of converting it out right into a mini priest instead of the Mini Brumbar that it is now.

If the Auto Attack Portion must stay for whatever reason then it should have a limitation set upon it like the KV-2 Siege mode in which the unit cannot move but will be allowed to fire auto attacks. This would give the unit a reason to have the Smoke and would make the unit much easier to counter wether it be via diving with tanks/AT guns or Air Strikes since it would add a static element to the M8 Scott and would allow for further buffs of the barrage.

Also lets not forget pricing either. I would be glad to pay 150 fuel if the M8 Scott was useful on its own without the need of having to spam them to counter team weapons (which a single calliope would make quick work of) and would make remove USF needing to pick up Calliopes just to deal with Team Weapon spam.

are we talking white phosphorus rounds that are completely castrated, like the mortar ht has (which at max does 40 damage to braindead players), or real wp like the pak howi vet1?

If Scott's maneuverability is an issue, perhaps reduce rotation rate and acceleration to better punish a slow reaction.

Is the Scott delivering too much damage? I always find them flimsy and difficult to protect when being flanked on account of USF lacking even a general purpose mine to permanently disable an aggressive P4 or P5 push. The baby mines just give you a bit more time to react and sometimes that isn't enough.

We've got to be careful with this unit, though. With USF's lack of non-doctrinal rocket artillery, something has to be able to punish blobs.

If Scott's maneuverability is an issue, perhaps reduce rotation rate and acceleration to better punish a slow reaction.

Is the Scott delivering too much damage? I always find them flimsy and difficult to protect when being flanked on account of USF lacking even a general purpose mine to permanently disable an aggressive P4 or P5 push. The baby mines just give you a bit more time to react and sometimes that isn't enough.

We've got to be careful with this unit, though. With USF's lack of non-doctrinal rocket artillery, something has to be able to punish blobs.

A USF blob can punish an enemy blob.

A USF blob can punish an enemy blob.

No no no. Enemy blobs consist of elite infantry at this stage, which USF does not have access to unless they have it in a doctrine. At stock, USF will ALWAYS lose.

No no no. Enemy blobs consist of elite infantry at this stage, which USF does not have access to unless they have it in a doctrine. At stock, USF will ALWAYS lose.

There's also the fact that BARs are only good close to mid range, while most enemy blobs consist of MG34 obers which are great long range (so no need to close in); Fussies with G43s that decimate on the move + obers lasering down; Grens with LMG42 which also need to be static and shoot at long range, forcing rifles to move out of cover (+ rifle nade). On one hand, early on Rifles win hard vs grens as they close in, but once the LMG upgrade kicks in and vet starts to flow, rifles can't really close in to grens as they will get shredded on the way in.
Most people forget that BARs are good only up to mid range. Engagements start long range as far as I remember

A USF blob can punish an enemy blob.

What a noob.

Dont go around, Vipper. stop distracting people, how the hell you say rilfeman blob can stop axis blob ? How the hell you say pfuss is penal ?.
Back to topic, there is another idea for pathfinder problem. let's them have only 1 weapon slot. That could lower their firepower, also give them little buff on vet is fine