Nerf "Encirclement Doctrine" Axis. BROKEN

2) Best combination is 2x Encircle and 2x CAS to do a two point cache destroy and point decap at the same time. CAS has recon plane + stuka bomb. On top it has AI strafe to pin infantry that tries to get point back. Furthermore CAS is a doctrine with a lot of munition which helps a lot. Encircle adds 2x Stormtroopers to prolong the decap or give sight where needed and of course the main dish.

If an arranged team wants to completely dictate their loadouts to pull this off including 2 meme CAS (I don't play 4s but I assume CAS is still pretty dead in most game modes) then more power to them. No heavy tanks, no elephants, and no howitizers... I think I'd take my chance with Close The Pocket lol

it actually does and the commander is quite decent for team games.

It limits you to one commander always if one of your opponents has Encirclement in his loadout and it does not protect vs "Break Supply Line" only vs normal decaping. Just try it yourself.

If an arranged team wants to completely dictate their loadouts to pull this off including 2 meme CAS (I don't play 4s but I assume CAS is still pretty dead in most game modes) then more power to them. No heavy tanks, no elephants, and no howitizers... I think I'd take my chance with Close The Pocket lol

Panther and Pzwerfer is all you really need for that. Add the right support units and you'll be fine. All the units you named are optional if playing Ostheer, they don't fill blank spots.

This ability is damn expensive and quite hard to pull off (if playing with randoms). Just keep an eye on your cut-off.

Thats it exactly, it is pretty hard at randoms. It is a problem with arranged teams and it is uncounterable if they know what they are doing. I will tell you how we did it at Redball and Whiteball more than once.

1) Take 2x Encirclement and 2x CAS.
2) CAS players use their abilities freely and feed the team with mun, Encirclement players don't use their abilites, especially not Stormtroopers to not warn the enemy and prevent mines at buildings near cut off points
3) Once you reach 12 CPs:
- both CAS players spawn recon plane for sight
- both CAS players call down a Stuka bomb, one on each cache
- directly after activating Stuka bomb offmap, both Encirclement players call down "Break Supply Line", one on each cache since both abilities have same delay as Stuka bomb
- ativate Close the Pocket in meantime
- Stuka bomb will hit 1-2 seconds before Break Supply Line, both points get decapped, Close the Pocket gets activated
- spawn CAS AI Strafe (2x) and Encirclement Stormtroopers (x2) in time at the point that is at risk to get recapped

4) To get it even better:
In many games at Redball/Whiteball it was possible to breakthrough on far left if we were on top or far right if we were on bottom with a reasonable armoured force supported by some infantry. Don't bother if you trade bad here. Take one point, concentrate on the other point with all your offmaps and call-ins and swing in with your breakthrough force to hinder enemy units from drawing back. If you can pull this off it usually results in a total victory.

Edit: Conclusion

It is a bs ability, because...
...it only works on some maps
...it is op if executed with timings at arranged team (basically easy to execute but it needs a lot of communication, preferable per voicechat)
...it is next to useless in randoms or at some other maps
...it is all or nothing and that shouldn't exist

To much arguments if you ask me.

It limits you to one commander always if one of your opponents has Encirclement in his loadout and it does not protect vs "Break Supply Line" only vs normal decaping. Just try it yourself.

most of the time you need to decap 2 points like in Kharkov, so OST uses 1 "break Supply" and other decap is being made by a vehicle or a squad of Storms. You just boobytrap both points and it is all good. Again, if the commander is that scary, just pick the proper counter. On the ladder it is a none issue, since it is a very rare commander. This patch it was picked into loadout whopping 10% of times and I suppose the actual pickrate of the commander is much lower. So I'm really curious why this is such a big deal.

If you're playing random and your up against an arranged team its a 99% change your going to lose that game anyway. It doesn't matter if they use encirclement or any other doctrine.

If you're playing random and your up against an arranged team its a 99% change your going to lose that game anyway. It doesn't matter if they use encirclement or any other doctrine.

I've won plenty of random games to top 20 AT teams in 3v3. It's cancerous and hard to play, but not impossible. One thing I've noticed with every AT is that they go 2v1 hard on one opponent. Most problems when playing with randoms is that if you get a lower skilled players, they will not be able to take advantage of the 2v1 your teammate is having and encircle the deep pushes. Otherwise, if you get people that know what they're doing, you can win anything.

But that's not the point. The point is that the ENC doctrine is fine. It's not broken, it's cheese and hard to pull off. Main problem is the map design on some maps (eg redball)

Its a one trick pony, if it happens once, you are DAF to allow it to happen again.

Just watch enemy commander loadout, see a dude with glasses? burn down buildings, use barbed wire,lay mines and build caches like most people do.

If you do that, that person just wasted her/his chance to win

The funny thing is that all the "solutions" around here ignore the fact that not a single one helps vs "Stuka bomb" plus "Break Supply Line". The only argument that went into that direction was that "CAS" doctrine is a pretty much dead doctrine. So I will just stop about that argument if you don't want to hear it. I can just veto Redball/Whiteball if playing Allies, that is the only working way to counter that strat.


One other thing I disagree about: CAS doctrine is wrongfully in the circle of the underused doctrines. It gives you a lot of strong options in a teamgame. I always like to play this commander by myself. I'm pretty sure it is one of my top3 played Ostheer doctrines overall:

- Recon
- AI Strafe that gives you the edge in infantry fights
- endless mun to equip your squads with weapons and lay down regular mines with HT or mine fields with pioneers, or just spam the commander abilities
- Stuka bomb: A commander that gets kill B4 button on top of having a recon plane, not bad
- AT strafe to help kill tanks or destroy rocket artillery if opponent is unaware or the rocket artillery is real close to the edge of the map

Overall that are a lot of additional useful goodies for a faction that has no unit holes in their nondoc roster.

I mean, the ability is broken, but it requires a lot to pull off and if you're a good player you're going to spot attempts to cut you off.

Worst case scenario is you retreat everything and then fight back which shouldn't be much of an issue unless you're relying on another gimmick, like soviet forward HQs in every building.

"Toxic titles"

The ability is map dependent and the call in time is sub 30 seconds making it hard to avoid if you have a long way to retreat as it tracks through FOW and all sectors cut off. Some larger maps only have a 2~3 connecting territories from base sector to the rest of the map meaning you'll lose a lot on retreat and there isn't much counter play other then caches.

I've used and been up against this ability, its potent in team games and the ability to drop through FOW makes it invaluable if you can pull it off. I like the concept though, just wish it wasn't map wide or didn't track past the front line sectors.

Like 60 range tank destroyers

OKW have

"Toxic titles"

The ability is map dependent and the call in time is sub 30 seconds making it hard to avoid if you have a long way to retreat as it tracks through FOW and all sectors cut off. Some larger maps only have a 2~3 connecting territories from base sector to the rest of the map meaning you'll lose a lot on retreat and there isn't much counter play other then caches.

I've used and been up against this ability, its potent in team games and the ability to drop through FOW makes it invaluable if you can pull it off. I like the concept though, just wish it wasn't map wide or didn't track past the front line sectors.

"...Axis (or allies). BROKEN" is a toxic tittle and tittles like this one tent to create a toxic environment.

Just because an ability of a single Ostheer commander might or might not be OP that does not make "axis Broken".

Lulz of ALL the things to complain about

Cache up bro. Some maps it works, most it is utter garbage