The devs did it again... Buffed B4 into the heaven

If there was a way to counter the B4 in a 3v3 or 4v4, it actually feels pretty good and made the doctrine useful. But they took away counter battery, so there is no counter except suiciding a tank.

This is a joke, right? I got it

If there was a way to counter the B4 in a 3v3 or 4v4, it actually feels pretty good and made the doctrine useful. But they took away counter battery, so there is no counter except suiciding a tank.

In 1v1 or 2v2 it's probably better, but on a rectangular map with any kind of mine play you're not going to get it.

It's a game breaking design failure. Really no way to rework it again I think.

much less range would be a start....than you cant build in such safe place like near base sector

much less range would be a start....than you cant build in such safe place like near base sector

You mean like LeFH? On 3v3 maps like winnekendonk where it can reach enemy base from your base? And with large enough scatter, no place is safe for the threat of a random shell landing on top of your unit/s is always there? And then one guy spamming it while other two spam heavies and bunker down around 2 VPs?
B4 is fine. You actually need to use your brain to counter it. Played vs a B4 spammer yesterday a couple of times as OKW. Sure it was a non-competitive game, but still, the enemy was pretty decent.
Took out his B4s once with goliaths sneaking around the edges of the map for a cheap price. Once with LeFH from my own base. And in 2 other games, with recon+offmap (mostly stuka, once sector).

So yeah, learn to deal with it and you'll see it's quite normal.

Its not really fine if every guy you meet had a b4 commander on his loadout. Before the patch it is not as picked right now means its even better than the rng one shot med tank version. Unless you want to see the same b4 commanders every game.

Its not really fine if every guy you meet had a b4 commander on his loadout. Before the patch it is not as picked right now means its even better than the rng one shot med tank version.

I knew the Tiger and pfusillers were not fine!!

I knew the Tiger and pfusillers were not fine!!

yeah they both need a buff

I like, how dispite all attempts, it is still ignored by most of the people in this thread that the main problem of B4 is the fact that its overperforming, not the fact that it hard to countered by recon+offmap or something like that. Its counterable just like any other Howi.

The fact that it is countarable dosnt mean that it is fine. What matters is that it cost you the same, you have access to it at the same time as you get LeFH and ML20.

Its perfomance is much-much better then other howis. Judging by logic ppl use here "if its counterable then its fine", we can make P4J cost as much as T34\76, because they are both are medium tanks and 76 has better AI, thats why its a justified change, dispate P4J being litterary better by a mile then it in everything else.

I will repeat myself again. B4 is better in everything but zone denial then ML20\LeFH, while having the same cost, availability and counters.

I like, how dispite all attempts, it is still ignored by most of the people in this thread that the main problem of B4 is the fact that its overperforming,.

Yeah, it is a fact because you say so, very convincing i have to say.

The patch is just go live for like 3-4 days, normally pp will have to take time to adjust to the changes and data have to be collected before any conclusion, but some pp seem like just cant stand it when a previous meme unit of alies show some sight of may be become viable. Like, Op post is pure wining, nothing more.

Yeah, it is a fact because you say so, very convincing i have to say.

The patch is just go live for like 3-4 days, normally pp will have to take time to adjust to the changes and data have to be collected before any conclusion, but some pp seem like just cant stand it when a previous meme unit of alies show some sight of may be become viable. Like, Op post is pure wining, nothing more.

Alright we can give a month, what would happen? Sure ppl who complain that B4 is uncounterable might learn how to pick off-maps to counter it.

But I've already pointed out that B4 is not an uncounterable unit, it can be countered just like any other howi. How time will fix short cooldown, how time will fix ridiculous AOE profile and suppresion?

Sure we might say that ppl will adapt and will retreat after they hear B4 shot fired, but isnt it already a sign of overperfomance? Other howis arent forcing you to instantly retreat in order not to lose your units, other howis operate on RNG, unlike B4, which even with near misses already paying for itself.

Unit being viable doesnt mean that it should be overperforming and overbuffed. And even if B4 should be just as good as it is right now, it should at least requare more CP to be unlocked and cost additional 20-30 or so fuel.

OP might be just whining, but I'm not defending nor agreeing with the OP. I'm stating that B4 is by far much better, deadlier and cost-effective unit with minimal RNG involved compared to other howis, dispite being completly equal in terms of cost. There is no way one can present ML20\LeFH to be on pair with B4 or close to B4, unless you bring examples of dark magic where 8 out of 10 shots wiped something in a row.

And whole discussion is now a guideline with ppl explaining how you can pick a commander with offmap to counter B4, how counter barrage is OP dispite being removed from the game and "wow allies have cool howi now, axis players is just jealous".

B-4 overperformed ? yeah, sure.
> " Move your unit " . simple is that.

B-4 overperformed ? yeah, sure.
> " Move your unit " . simple is that.

Yes, move your unit and still take suppresion and damage from near misses. Great advise buddy.

Yes, move your unit and still take suppresion and damage from near misses. Great advise buddy.

will you support remove supression from panzerweffer or give me an advice ?

how wide of " near misses" buddy ? =))
there are only 3 shots with fucking big scatter. AOE + Damage won't do jack shit. Just dont blob.

will you support remove supression from panzerweffer or give me an advice ?

Axis fanboy check? I dont care if PF have suppression or not, just like any other rocket arty if you end up taking damage from it (be it katy,PF, cali or matters) you most likely will have to retreat anyway.

So with or without suppresion PF is still will be just as deadly.

how wide of " near misses" buddy ? =))

You can open patch notes and check the AOE radius and compare it to other howis and then be a smart guy and remind youself that other howis wont even scratch the enemy with near misses =))))

there are only 3 shots with fucking big scatter. AOE + Damage won't do jack shit. Just dont blob.

And what? I've already said that B4 is worst as area denial weapon, when it comes to dealing raw damage or stopping inf you dont need more then 3 shots, because after third shot of ML20\LeFH enemy would most likely either reteat or move out of an arty zone. And chances of hitting\stoping enemy with B4, even considering scatter, are much highter then with ML20\LeFH.

Also other howis do have scatter aswell, it depens on range you know.

Alright we can give a month, what would happen? Sure ppl who complain that B4 is uncounterable might learn how to pick off-maps to counter it.

But I've already pointed out that B4 is not an uncounterable unit, it can be countered just like any other howi. How time will fix short cooldown, how time will fix ridiculous AOE profile and suppresion?

it take more than 5 years to removed the braindead CB from the game so, sure, time may fix stuffs.

OP might be just whining, but I'm not defending nor agreeing with the OP. I'm stating that B4 is by far much better, deadlier and cost-effective unit with minimal RNG involved compared to other howis, dispite being completly equal in terms of cost. There is no way one can present ML20\LeFH to be on pair with B4 or close to B4, unless you bring examples of dark magic where 8 out of 10 shots wiped something in a row.

And whole discussion is now a guideline with ppl explaining how you can pick a commander with offmap to counter B4, how counter barrage is OP dispite being removed from the game and "wow allies have cool howi now, axis players is just jealous".

"minimal RNG" ????? Do you event know how often it hit where you aim ? It have a full hp squad wipe radius of 2.5 with max range scatter somewhere around 2/3 of the screen ? Getting a wipe with that setup is somehow "minimal rng" to you ?

it take more than 5 years to removed the braindead CB from the game so, sure, time may fix stuffs.

It toop 5 years because ppl started to complain about it only recently. While Sander said it has nothing to with the complains, I still belive it had its part.

"minimal RNG" ????? Do you event know how often it hit where you aim ? It have a full hp squad wipe radius of 2.5 with max range scatter somewhere around 2/3 of the screen ? Getting a wipe with that setup is somehow "minimal rng" to you ?

Lets not bring personal expiriences shell we? I also had games where LeFH wiped all my stuff near forward retreat point or hit squad directly in the face with first hit. Such situations are much easier to remember then the times when barrage didnt hit you at all.

Operate with raw stats and mechanics behind the unit. Can ML20\LeFH wipe with full HP squads with first shell? Yes they can. Are they deadly? Yes they are.

Fact it that, statistically speaking, chances for B4 be much more effective are still much highter.

Axis fanboy check? I dont care if PF have suppression or not, just like any other rocket arty if you end up taking damage from it (be it katy,PF, cali or matters) you most likely will have to retreat anyway.

So with or without suppresion PF is still will be just as deadly.

take dmg from rocket then retreat = fine but take dmf from b4 then have to retreat as well is Op, what logic is this ?

You can open patch notes and check the AOE radius and compare it to other howis and then be a smart guy and remind youself that other howis wont even scratch the enemy with near misses =))))

it have full squad wipe radius of 2.5 and deal 32dmg from there to outer radius of 12, which is roughly half model, but why keep half Hp squad on the front ? Also, if the squad is within the aoe radius of the shell then that dont event count as a miss to begin with, it just the explosive effect doesnt match the aoe profile that make the shot feel like a miss. On top of that, the suppress radius is 14, larger than aoe so unit can take suppression without take any dmg at all.

And what? I've already said that B4 is worst as area denial weapon, when it comes to dealing raw damage or stopping inf you dont need more then 3 shots, because after third shot of ML20\LeFH enemy would most likely either reteat or move out of an arty zone. And chances of hitting\stoping enemy with B4, even considering scatter, are much highter then with ML20\LeFH.

Also other howis do have scatter aswell, it depens on range you know.

the way you describe B4 sound like it is working similar to rocket, i.e dealing bust dmg and stop blob, which turn out be fine by your own words.

take dmg from rocket then retreat = fine but take dmf from b4 then have to retreat as well is Op, what logic is this ?
the way you describe B4 sound like it is working similar to rocket, i.e dealing bust dmg and stop blob, which turn out be fine by your own words.

Rocket arty have smaller zone, rocket arty actually have to sit near front line and dont requare specific commanders to be countered.

But sure, idea is the same yes. But B4 isnt a rocket arty, nor does it have AOE profile and damage of the rocket arty. B4 is a howi and it should work closer to the howi rules, not the rocket arty rules. Or if its treated as a "special case howi", then cost and timing should reflect it and not be on pair with other howis. That what I was speaking about from the begining.

it have full squad wipe radius of 2.5 and deal 32dmg from there to outer radius of 12, which is roughly half model, but why keep half Hp squad on the front ? Also, if the squad is within the aoe radius of the shell then that dont event count as a miss to begin with, it just the explosive effect doesnt match the aoe profile that make the shot feel like a miss. On top of that, the suppress radius is 14, larger than aoe so unit can take suppression without take any dmg at all.

What is your point? I'm not saying that B4 fires nukes, nor that it has homing missiles. I'm saying that unless your B4 completly misses, you generate more value from it then with other howis.

I dont know how to put it more clearly. Its like comparing regular soviet mortar with a 120mm one. Just because it has bigger explosion and impact zone, its easier to hit something with it.

Rocket arty have smaller zone, rocket arty actually have to sit near front line and dont requare specific commanders to be countered.

But sure, idea is the same yes. But B4 isnt a rocket arty, nor does it have AOE profile and damage of the rocket arty. B4 is a howi and it should work closer to the howi rules, not the rocket arty rules. Or if its treated as a "special case howi", then cost and timing should reflect it and not be on pair with other howis. That what I was speaking about from the begining.

But the B4 was never following "howie rule", event pre patch (fire only 1 shot), and balance team as well as player has allway avoiding turning B4 into another ML, which lead to the current design. If we lock at it like a rocket arty then it cost actually on par with man-crewed rocket, i.e the land mattress.

What is your point? I'm not saying that B4 fires nukes, nor that it has homing missiles. I'm saying that unless your B4 completly misses, you generate more value from it then with other howis.

I dont know how to put it more clearly. Its like comparing regular soviet mortar to a 120mm one. Just because it has bigger explosion and impact zone, its easier to hit something with it.

You mean the B4 have better chance to hit by having bigger aoe? Can be, but like that at the same time i can say LEFH have better chance to hit by firing more shot, so in the end, they just difference in their ways to gain "chance to hit" and it not something you draw op conclusion from.

But the B4 was never following "howie rule", event pre patch (fire only 1 shot), and balance team as well as player has allway avoiding turning B4 into another ML, which lead to the current design. If we lock at it like a rocket arty then it cost actually on par with man-crewed rocket, i.e the land mattress.

Yes, it was never following the howie rules, but it was a pure RNG unit, with shit design. Now it was brought up into the standart howi territory but with a different flavor to it. And this flavor stinks, because it makes it much better then other howis and its not reflected at all. Not in barrage cooldown, not in cost, not in veterancy.

Again I'm not saying that B4 is OP or that new design is bad. I was saying its overperforming, meaning that its power is not balanced out by different factors I've mentioned above.

You mean the B4 have better chance to hit by having bigger aoe? Can be, but like that at the same time i can say LEFH have better chance to hit by firing more shot, so in the end, they just difference in their ways to gain "chance to hit" and it not something you draw op conclusion from.

Yes LeFH\ML20 have better chance at hitting STATIC enemy or the enemy which stays inside the bombarded zone. Against mobile or moving enemy B4 is much better, just because of its burst damage and AOE. Thats the main complain, since unless enemy is turtling super badly or you need to deny zone for a long time, B4 is better in every single situation compared to LeFH\ML20.