Team matches

Dota 2 is based off Warcraft 3 which is an RTS. Also they have custom games that are RTS like in nature which is why I compared the two games.

The only issue with a reconnect feature in COH is that alot can happen in 30 seconds. They would have to make improvements to the AI as well because it is beyond useless.

The same Warcraft 3 that did not allowed reconnects in ranked games?

Dota 2 is based off Warcraft 3 which is an RTS. Also they have custom games that are RTS like in nature which is why I compared the two games.

The only issue with a reconnect feature in COH is that alot can happen in 30 seconds. They would have to make improvements to the AI as well because it is beyond useless.

Honestly the only thing they'd "really" have to do is force a pause if someone drops, that can be extended based on player voting. If he can reconnect: Great, connect and unpause. If not? Just let the team down a player immediately surrender. It'd be a hell of a lot easier than trying to make the AI less retarded.

The same Warcraft 3 that did not allowed reconnects in ranked games?

Yeah, and? There's really nothing inherent in an RTS that means you shouldn't have a reconnect function. Poor design in a 19 year old game doesn't mean that a more recent one should retain its flaws.

It's not a matter of not wanting a feature, it's a matter of it been realistically possible to develop for an RTS, because it seems from experience that the requirements to implement it WILDLY differs when comparing MOBAS to RTS.

Let's list some games in the last 10 years:

Men of War
Planetary Annihilation
SC2
Grey Goo
Remaster versions of: AoE I/II/III, Homeworld, WC3 Reforged...
Cossack3
Halo Wars2
Blitzkrieg
Sudden Strike
Steel Division
Iron Harvest

I don't know about all of them which is why i ask if any of them have a reconnect system for when you totally drop out of the game.

It's not a matter of not wanting a feature, it's a matter of it been realistically possible to develop for an RTS, because it seems from experience that the requirements to implement it WILDLY differs when comparing MOBAS to RTS.

Let's list some games in the last 10 years:

Men of War
Planetary Annihilation
SC2
Grey Goo
Remaster versions of: AoE I/II/III, Homeworld, WC3 Reforged...
Cossack3
Halo Wars2
Blitzkrieg
Sudden Strike
Steel Division
Iron Harvest

I don't know about all of them which is why i ask if any of them have a reconnect system for when you totally drop out of the game.

From the ones I've played(all except Cossacks3, Blitzkrieg, wc3 reforged and AoE I and II), not a single one allowed reconnect to ranked game or reconnect at all.

Expanding it to Northgard and Stronghold as well.

That feature is not present in RTS, because its too difficult to implement to RTS and you can tell that most easy by LACK OF IT in SC2 and WC3.

Really, all games should the be treated as "Ranked". Stacking penalties (that decay after successfully completed matches) should be implemented to punish repeat leavers/griefers, while giving some leeway for people who bugsplat/have to leave very rarely for benign reasons.

Though, i mean, even if you leave a game early for a "legitimate" reason, you still are ruining the game for the other 1-7 people involved, so some penalty kind of is reasonable/expected.

Yeah that would be ideal. But imo big game modes are tilted towards axis to much. Because off this more skilled players and arranged teams flock towards axis. If this tilt isent fixed you cant balance or rank these modes and get a good distribution of skilled players imo.

Also waiting times to joins games are already quite long. And i do have a strong online connection. In my case one of my kids presses the button on my pc sometimes when i am in a match... this will stop but it takes a few years i am afriad.
Giving time penalties will incease it. But if the quality of games improves or you can finish games that would be fantastic.

I am however a strong believer in not punishing some one for the mistakes or deliberate action of others.

If he quites, you would have lose anyway.

It's not a matter of not wanting a feature, it's a matter of it been realistically possible to develop for an RTS, because it seems from experience that the requirements to implement it WILDLY differs when comparing MOBAS to RTS.

Let's list some games in the last 10 years:

Men of War
Planetary Annihilation
SC2
Grey Goo
Remaster versions of: AoE I/II/III, Homeworld, WC3 Reforged...
Cossack3
Halo Wars2
Blitzkrieg
Sudden Strike
Steel Division
Iron Harvest

I don't know about all of them which is why i ask if any of them have a reconnect system for when you totally drop out of the game.

The reason is the networking model used for RTS, which is generally Deterministic Lockstep. It requires that all participants have all information at all times, and reconnecting is difficult using that system. This is/was used because it is comparatively low bandwidth, particularly when large numbers of units are present.

Benefits: Fast, cheap (In terms of data)

Negatives: Reconnecting means you need to simulate the entire game up to that point, and cheating is easier/more common, as each client gets data for everything in the game.

Also: There's always some input delay, which gets worse as latency increases. This is why it can take so long for your units to actually respond to your commands.


With the advances in hardware/bandwidth; It's perfectly possible to use a client/server model, or some sort of hybrid. This would

Planetary Annihilation is an example of an RTS that uses a client/server/predictive model, and it also has a reconnection feature.

As before: A reconnect feature is possible in CoH2, but it would be less straightforward than in, say, an FPS, and it would mean you'd basically need to watch a replay of what happened up to the point you reconnect.

The reason is the networking model used for RTS, which is generally Deterministic Lockstep. It requires that all participants have all information at all times, and reconnecting is difficult using that system. This is/was used because it is comparatively low bandwidth, particularly when large numbers of units are present.

Benefits: Fast, cheap (In terms of data)

Negatives: Reconnecting means you need to simulate the entire game up to that point, and cheating is easier/more common, as each client gets data for everything in the game.

Also: There's always some input delay, which gets worse as latency increases. This is why it can take so long for your units to actually respond to your commands.


With the advances in hardware/bandwidth; It's perfectly possible to use a client/server model, or some sort of hybrid. This would

Planetary Annihilation is an example of an RTS that uses a client/server/predictive model, and it also has a reconnection feature.

As before: A reconnect feature is possible in CoH2, but it would be less straightforward than in, say, an FPS, and it would mean you'd basically need to watch a replay of what happened up to the point you reconnect.

I know what you said, but what i mean is that ALL AAA titles seems to not deem it worthy for automatch purposes. For Planetary Annihilation, can you reconnect AFTER dropping from the game or is it like COH or other titles on which you have a certain leeway before dropping totally and not been able to reconnect.

There are other titles that allow reconnection but not for automatch. Like AOE/SC2.


I would say this: if the current team is unable to fix spectator mode and we don't even have a way to rewind during replays, don't expect to be an advancement in technology that allows for a decent reconnection system on RTS.

I know what you said, but what i mean is that ALL AAA titles seems to not deem it worthy for automatch purposes. For Planetary Annihilation, can you reconnect AFTER dropping from the game or is it like COH or other titles on which you have a certain leeway before dropping totally and not been able to reconnect.

To my knowledge it's a "real" reconnection feature. You can close the game, reopen it, and be presented with a "reconnect to game" option.

There are other titles that allow reconnection but not for automatch. Like AOE/SC2.


I would say this: if the current team is unable to fix spectator mode and we don't even have a way to rewind during replays, don't expect to be an advancement in technology that allows for a decent reconnection system on RTS.

Yeah, I agree. It's not a case of it being possible, but a case of Lelic being capable. I guarantee we're not getting a reconnection feature in CoH2, and probably not in CoH3 either. We'd be lucky to get hotkey rebinding.

I would like to see a 1-2 hour penalty for leaving a match that doesn't have leavers in it already.

This would only work if there was a minimum time period you had to play before no penalty. 10-15 minutes or whatever. I'm sorry but I don't want to held hostage in a game that's unwinnable/with a toxic mate. I also don't know if you could code it so that bugsplats or disconnects don't punish you for "leaving". Otherwise the same standby answers apply. 1) Play 1v1 2) Play with AT

I would say this: if the current team is unable to fix spectator mode and we don't even have a way to rewind during replays, don't expect to be an advancement in technology that allows for a decent reconnection system on RTS.

Totally unrelated but for the longest time I thought I was retarded because I couldn't figure out how to rewind replays. I thought "surely there has to be a way to rewind, what with that being a standard function and what not"

This would only work if there was a minimum time period you had to play before no penalty. 10-15 minutes or whatever. I'm sorry but I don't want to held hostage in a game that's unwinnable/with a toxic mate. I also don't know if you could code it so that bugsplats or disconnects don't punish you for "leaving". Otherwise the same standby answers apply. 1) Play 1v1 2) Play with AT

Ramping penalties are what would be used, there's sort of no way for the system to "know" that a disconnect is "legitimate" or a case of someone pulling the plug. The benefit here is that the occasional disconnect (which would be assumed to be because of a legitimate problem) is only minorly punished, but habitual griefers/leavers are more heavily punished, which is kind of the goal of any system like this anyway.

Also: a game being "unwinnable" isnt really quantifiable; if you decide the game can't be won, but the rest of the team disagree and wish to continue: You leaving is arguably not a "legitimate" disconnect, and should be punished just as any other.

Ragequitting a game after 10-30 minutes is FAR worse than leaving just as the game starts, incidentally.

The standby counter-answer is: "Don't play a team mode if you aren't willing to tough it out till the end."

That feature is not present in RTS, because its too difficult to implement to RTS and you can tell that most easy by LACK OF IT in SC2 and WC3.

Is this a back-handed way of saying those companies are better than Relic

Is this a back-handed way of saying those companies are better than Relic

*used to be, at least in quality assurance department.

...

I think a good approximation as to what to expect would be once AoE4 is released.

Yeah, I agree. It's not a case of it being possible, but a case of Lelic being capable. I guarantee we're not getting a reconnection feature in CoH2, and probably not in CoH3 either. We'd be lucky to get hotkey rebinding.

Are we even getting CoH3 ?

I think a good approximation as to what to expect would be once AoE4 is released.

It isnt exactly looking promising, to me, so I'm not holding out much hope then.

Are we even getting CoH3 ?

Depends if AoEIV tanks, I guess.