Top level player allegedly maphacking in CoH2

But then why is he not saying that it were merely the lucky timings? Why does he claim to have seen the units and reacted to them, which is objectively impossible?

That's what I don't get. He seems to be a proven liar as far as I can tell. 1. He's denying to have played on Deadbolt after the warning which is untrue. 2.The above mentioned claim about the vision.

It wouldn't be fair to use this "lie" as evidence. It's only natural for someone pressured by serious accusations to try and come up with a rationalization for his past actions. If the incident happened a while ago, it's quite likely that he doesn't remember it clearly, so he forms a flawed rationalization based either on his hazy memories or simply what seems plausible.

so noone gets banned? disappointing

I have a feeling based purely on the 2v2 clips of seeking and kimbo playing together, that some of the actions may have been influenced by kimbo asking seeking to fire/move at a certain location where he sees/senses something was present on the battlefield, as we only see the fog of war for seeking, not Kimbo, in these clips. Both were present on voice chat for almost all 2v2 clips as well. I think getting Kimbo's two cents (although he has a troubled past due to the Tightrope tourney smurfing controversy) would give us some of the missing pieces to the puzzle of suspicion, and clarify why seeking made some of those gameplay decisions (like the t70 clip).

I have a feeling based purely on the 2v2 clips of seeking and kimbo playing together, that some of the actions may have been influenced by kimbo asking seeking to fire/move at a certain location where he sees/senses something was present on the battlefield, as we only see the fog of war for seeking, not Kimbo, in these clips. Both were present on voice chat for almost all 2v2 clips as well. I think getting Kimbo's two cents (although he has a troubled past due to the Tightrope tourney smurfing controversy) would give us some of the missing pieces to the puzzle of suspicion, and clarify why seeking made some of those gameplay decisions (like the t70 clip).

Seeking and Kimbo would have the same line of sight/fog of war though, because they're on the same team.

One thing that might be worth considering, based on more clips and some of Seeking's streams that I watched, is the way he moves his camera (with WASD) is different than most/all other top players. Because he tends to move his camera to a spot, and then order units/vehicles to move to that location, he's naturally going to spend more time panning his camera around or "looking" into the fog than a player who frequently uses the tactical map would. Food for thought at least.

I have a feeling based purely on the 2v2 clips of seeking and kimbo playing together, that some of the actions may have been influenced by kimbo asking seeking to fire/move at a certain location where he sees/senses something was present on the battlefield, as we only see the fog of war for seeking, not Kimbo, in these clips. Both were present on voice chat for almost all 2v2 clips as well. I think getting Kimbo's two cents (although he has a troubled past due to the Tightrope tourney smurfing controversy) would give us some of the missing pieces to the puzzle of suspicion, and clarify why seeking made some of those gameplay decisions (like the t70 clip).

Wouldn't it be beneficial to watch Kimbo's VOD? Since you could hear their communication and see if Kimbo was infact influencing decisions like locations on Katys? Locating the correct vod and game would be difficult unless Kimbo himself recalls it, but it's possible. I'm surprised there have been little to no mentions of his teammates perspectives as far as evidence has gone so far.

It wouldn't be fair to use this "lie" as evidence. It's only natural for someone pressured by serious accusations to try and come up with a rationalization for his past actions. If the incident happened a while ago, it's quite likely that he doesn't remember it clearly, so he forms a flawed rationalization based either on his hazy memories or simply what seems plausible.

Then be honest and say that you don't know instead of trying to keep lying in order to find excuses to what you are been accused off.
Is he in a shit situation? Sure. But if you are been accused of a crime and deny that you were on the scene and then proven by witnesses or cameras that you were on the spot, it won't look good for you.

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There are still clips which are from 1v1. Which are the same situation and the same defense is been brought up.

I was doubtful and skeptical at first but as more evidence, circumstances and his defense was brought up, i'm less and less inclined to believe he is completely innocent.

It wouldn't be fair to use this "lie" as evidence. It's only natural for someone pressured by serious accusations to try and come up with a rationalization for his past actions. If the incident happened a while ago, it's quite likely that he doesn't remember it clearly, so he forms a flawed rationalization based either on his hazy memories or simply what seems plausible.

Yes, that is a valid point regarding 2. But if seeking doesn't hack he should just stick to the truth and not make up explanations to avoid this issue.

Further investigation on the katy has shown the following

Katy story:

23:55, Kimbo spots blob, its al over the mini map

24:01- 24:04 Kimbo retreats scott and paratrooper after shooting the blob also back offs jacksons

24:10 first rocket from seeking katy shows up

I don’t know how slow u think seeking is, but I bet even my grandma could have lined up a katy by now. There is a 15 sec time frame between first sight of the blob, all over the tacmap and plain view. Would be nice if everyone who was so busy looking in the replays and flaming in this thread, also took the time to look at kimbo’s vod lol.

https://clips.twitch.tv/IcyShortBillRuleFive-PDZZCWFDf-1O51ak Kimbo vod clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sp40YvZTY0&list=PL_YBMTftAjosbora-jA6DR54ix8ZY_NNq&index=32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlFDmsKh5EY&list=PL_YBMTftAjosbora-jA6DR54ix8ZY_NNq&index=33

Seeking has managed to find in one of my vods clip for the katyusha.

Clip from brosras: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlFDmsKh5EY

clip from stream: https://clips.twitch.tv/VenomousPolishedFinchKeepo-Tzcfo-q8v8x3Uds3

This blob is lazily walking since i spot it on the road. Seeking fire his katyusha in predicted spot, probably before he even see models. The part where i see blob a-moving is cut out to make it look more suspicious than it is.

Seeking has managed to find in one of my vods clip for the katyusha.

Clip from brosras: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlFDmsKh5EY

clip from stream: https://clips.twitch.tv/VenomousPolishedFinchKeepo-Tzcfo-q8v8x3Uds3

This blob is lazily walking since i spot it on the road, by this stage they giving up and not microing that much. Seeking fire his katyusha in predicted spot, probably before he even see models. The part where i see blob a-moving is cut out to make it look more suspicious than it actually is.

Yea agreed. Context debunks this clip almost completely.

Edit: And 90% of the clips dont even require debunking.

clip from stream: https://clips.twitch.tv/VenomousPolishedFinchKeepo-Tzcfo-q8v8x3Uds3

Kimbos stream clip supports what I said later on this topic. Looking at how the Katy is moving and turning on the minimap, the katy shot was fired 5-6 seconds before the blob appeared. It appears to be game sense that paid off pretty well.

Further investigation on the katy has shown the following

Katy story:

23:55, Kimbo spots blob, its al over the mini map

24:01- 24:04 Kimbo retreats scott and paratrooper after shooting the blob also back offs jacksons

24:10 first rocket from seeking katy shows up

I don’t know how slow u think seeking is, but I bet even my grandma could have lined up a katy by now. There is a 15 sec time frame between first sight of the blob, all over the tacmap and plain view. Would be nice if everyone who was so busy looking in the replays and flaming in this thread, also took the time to look at kimbo’s vod lol.

https://clips.twitch.tv/IcyShortBillRuleFive-PDZZCWFDf-1O51ak Kimbo vod clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sp40YvZTY0&list=PL_YBMTftAjosbora-jA6DR54ix8ZY_NNq&index=32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlFDmsKh5EY&list=PL_YBMTftAjosbora-jA6DR54ix8ZY_NNq&index=33

The reaction time argument was never about previous vision of the blob. It was referring to seekings own claims regarding all the "edge of the FoW" moments. These are still factually wrong, but could be explained by him being stressed out and desparately trying to find an explanation rather than lying in bad faith.

Further investigation on the katy has shown the following

Katy story:

23:55, Kimbo spots blob, its al over the mini map

24:01- 24:04 Kimbo retreats scott and paratrooper after shooting the blob also back offs jacksons

24:10 first rocket from seeking katy shows up

I don’t know how slow u think seeking is, but I bet even my grandma could have lined up a katy by now. There is a 15 sec time frame between first sight of the blob, all over the tacmap and plain view. Would be nice if everyone who was so busy looking in the replays and flaming in this thread, also took the time to look at kimbo’s vod lol.

https://clips.twitch.tv/IcyShortBillRuleFive-PDZZCWFDf-1O51ak Kimbo vod clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sp40YvZTY0&list=PL_YBMTftAjosbora-jA6DR54ix8ZY_NNq&index=32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlFDmsKh5EY&list=PL_YBMTftAjosbora-jA6DR54ix8ZY_NNq&index=33

considering that he didn't look there(while they were not in the fog of war) to make such a forecast on the minimap, it was strong, if this really isn't hacking, then I take my hat off to these gentlemen

Seeking has managed to find in one of my vods clip for the katyusha.

Clip from brosras: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlFDmsKh5EY

clip from stream: https://clips.twitch.tv/VenomousPolishedFinchKeepo-Tzcfo-q8v8x3Uds3

This blob is lazily walking since i spot it on the road, by this stage they giving up and not microing that much. Seeking fire his katyusha in predicted spot, probably before he even see models. The part where i see blob a-moving is cut out to make it look more suspicious than it is.

I'll give you a hint, it's not for nothing that the clip is called part 2

Seeking has managed to find in one of my vods clip for the katyusha.

Clip from brosras: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlFDmsKh5EY

clip from stream: https://clips.twitch.tv/VenomousPolishedFinchKeepo-Tzcfo-q8v8x3Uds3

This blob is lazily walking since i spot it on the road, by this stage they maybe giving up and not microing that much. Seeking fire his katyusha in predicted spot, probably before he even see models. The part where i see blob a-moving is cut out to make it look more suspicious than it is.

Great context.

I suggest you tell Seeking that if he doesn't know nor remembers a situation that you tell him to simple tell the truth. Cause trying to find excuses just makes him more guilty than staying silent.

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Because those situations which could be explained by game sense or predictions are been put in the spotlight (at least in my case) exclusively by the defense that Seeking is trying to put up.

I can believe pre fire. I don't believe (and he is still lying) that he spotted the blob and fired because he saw the Grenadier model.

Great context.

I suggest you tell Seeking that if he doesn't know nor remembers a situation that you tell him to simple tell the truth. Cause trying to find excuses just makes him more guilty than staying silent.



Because those situations which could be explained by game sense or predictions are been put in the spotlight (at least in my case) exclusively by the defense that Seeking is trying to put up.

I can believe pre fire. I don't believe (and he is still lying) that he spotted the blob and fired because he saw the Grenadier model.

The activation of Katyusha's ability begins before the grenadier model appears(at least when I looked in slow motion, it looked like this), so there is only foresight here.

which isnt something special considering the context

The activation of Katyusha's ability begins before the grenadier model appears(at least when I looked in slow motion, it looked like this), so there is only foresight here.

With the context of Kimbo's VOD, the gren/volk blob had been spotted a good 10-15 seconds prior to the Katy firing AND they were spotted moving in a particular direction from when the blob pushed back the Paras/Scott/Jackson. I don't think there is anything shocking about pre-firing on a blob when you know their location/direction of movement.

That being said, assuming that was the case, he shouldn't have claimed to have seen the Gren model. However, he's also under a lot of stress and being cornered into trying to remember his thought process throughout numerous games across a span of days so making up a justification isn't surprising. But simply saying "I can't remember" would have been better.

Ultimately, the short snippet that your clip shows makes things look worse than they were. Within the context there seems to be no foul play.

With the context of Kimbo's VOD, the gren/volk blob had been spotted a good 10-15 seconds prior to the Katy firing AND they were spotted moving in a particular direction from when the blob pushed back the Paras/Scott/Jackson. I don't think there is anything shocking about pre-firing on a blob when you know their location/direction of movement.

That being said, assuming that was the case, he shouldn't have claimed to have seen the Gren model. However, he's also under a lot of stress and being cornered into trying to remember his thought process throughout numerous games across a span of days so making up a justification isn't surprising. But simply saying "I can't remember" would have been better.

Ultimately, the short snippet that your clip shows makes things look worse than they were. Within the context there seems to be no foul play.

I didn't watch his stream because I don't understand English.
Given his style of play, through AWSD and the minimap, he doesn't look directly at the blob, and on the minimap it didn't look very much like a blob, then I have my doubts, but if it's not, then it's really a huge skill.

So basically after originally casting doubt on the validity of using replays to spot map hacking, you are now closer to where the rest of us are,

Yes and No. I have only found a few cases of things that were weird out of a handful of tries. These may not be everyone's experience. It may be very dependent on your internet connection.

So at this point it doesn't look like it helps Seeking in the pathfinder, ass gren, katyusha clips

I do not have an opinion really. I have not spent much time looking at the pathfinder/ass gren scenarios because both seem like good game sense.

PATHFINDER:
In a quick test I told volks to stop building and it was nearly instantaneous from my POV. What are the tell tale signs that the button was pressed? I am not familiar enough.

If it was me I would have stopped because the territory was flashing then stopped. That says bad guys are on the way.

ASS GREN:
I will try to watch this closer. The fact that the FOW gets calculated in a weird fashion may play into it as well as the possibility a unit was drawn in real-time before the replay. But for now, we can agree the time window will be very small (depending on your inet?).

Again, if I were playing, I would have rushed the ass grens to that green cover vehicle knowing there are units over there. So when they come around the corner they are faced with ass grens in green cover at close range.

KATY:
Has already been talked about.

ROSBONE:
I am just some noob. My opinion does not matter. I try to learn things and post them here for others. And sometimes I am completely wrong and learn from others. Just from playing Quake III on a modem and knowing how much code Carmack put into guessing where units would be, I know it is a formidable task. If Carmack had issues doing it, that does not bode well for normals.