Sturmtiger... why?

No problemo, just reciting a story of my own views
This is Coh for me and i hope Relic keeps heading that direction. The more variables the better. Set your own standards. Be courageous like Apple.

Apple?

You mean the company that sells overpriced shit and then pushes software updates to make them run worse so you buy their new junk?

I guess that's not a bad assessment seeing as where all business companies are headed with their practices.

Apple?

You mean the company that sells overpriced shit and then pushes software updates to make them run worse so you buy their new junk?

I guess that's not a bad assessment seeing as where all business companies are headed with their practices.

Another in a series of abysmal arguments and comparisons by MrGame2.

Apple?

You mean the company that sells overpriced shit and then pushes software updates to make them run worse so you buy their new junk?

I guess that's not a bad assessment seeing as where all business companies are headed with their practices.

+1 made my day!

Apple?

You mean the company that sells overpriced shit and then pushes software updates to make them run worse so you buy their new junk?

I guess that's not a bad assessment seeing as where all business companies are headed with their practices.

it was half in jest. while apple first born products are rough and overpriced. they are hardly shit, and they do break new grounds, push things further and the price differential becomes higher perfomance/dollars with each new revisions.

the competition always follow their lead yet unable to provide the same comprehensive experience even with all the copying.

cant wait for apple car!

Sturm is imo a overkill when it comes to its role as anti building/infantry unit. Its effectively like killing a mouse with a sledgehammer. Its clunky snd absolutely unnecessary. If okw could field brummbär i would take that over sturm anyday.

Sturm is imo a overkill when it comes to its role as anti building/infantry unit. Its effectively like killing a mouse with a sledgehammer. Its clunky snd absolutely unnecessary. If okw could field brummbär i would take that over sturm anyday.

As much as I'd love the Brummbar as OKW, I think it would probably be too strong for them... and people/the balans team are loathe to make OKW and OST even MORE similar to one another.

As much as I'd love the Brummbar as OKW, I think it would probably be too strong for them... and people/the balans team are loathe to make OKW and OST even MORE similar to one another.

it was purely hypothetical. Imo sturms biggest issue is its projectile easily hitting terrain too early.

it was half in jest. while apple first born products are rough and overpriced. they are hardly shit, and they do break new grounds, push things further and the price differential becomes higher perfomance/dollars with each new revisions.

the competition always follow their lead yet unable to provide the same comprehensive experience even with all the copying.

cant wait for apple car!

I don't own nor will I ever probably own an Apple product.

However my father does own an older iPhone from around 2014 from which year I also have a Sony Xperia Z3.

The difference is that my phone has better specifications while his is more expensive, for some "unknown" reason.

Just the other day it's battery also died suddenly simply because it was a bit too cold for it while mine had no such problem, again both phones from around the same time, his being more expensive, mine being cheaper.

Plus as I said previously Apple forcing down software updates on their older products in order to make way for their new ones as you can see here: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3599141/apples-iphone-slowdown-ploy-was-ridiculous-even-by-apple-standards.html

I'm also not sure what you mean with breaking new grounds exactly when as far as I'm aware they're further back than Android phones in terms of features even but since it has more "prestige" to it loyal customers such as yourself I'm guessing keep buying into it thinking that they're superior while just simply paying more for what you'd get in another brand's phones but whatever.

Anyway back to the topic at hand, I believe that there's still a bit of room left to experiment and finally fix, improve or change the Sturmtiger as Olek has proven but it seems like both the developers and community team have given up so whatever is being written here is falling on deaf ears which comes as no surprise.

I don't own nor will I ever probably own an Apple product.

However my father does own an older iPhone from around 2014 from which year I also have a Sony Xperia Z3.

The difference is that my phone has better specifications while his is more expensive, for some "unknown" reason.

Just the other day it's battery also died suddenly simply because it was a bit too cold for it while mine had no such problem, again both phones from around the same time, his being more expensive, mine being cheaper.

Plus as I said previously Apple forcing down software updates on their older products in order to make way for their new ones as you can see here: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3599141/apples-iphone-slowdown-ploy-was-ridiculous-even-by-apple-standards.html

I'm also not sure what you mean with breaking new grounds exactly when as far as I'm aware they're further back than Android phones in terms of features even but since it has more "prestige" to it loyal customers such as yourself I'm guessing keep buying into it thinking that they're superior while just simply paying more for what you'd get in another brand's phones but whatever.

Anyway back to the topic at hand, I believe that there's still a bit of room left to experiment and finally fix, improve or change the Sturmtiger as Olek has proven but it seems like both the developers and community team have given up so whatever is being written here is falling on deaf ears which comes as no surprise.

Personally, I do think the "best" solution to both the Sturmtiger and the AVRE is to make them similar to the Brummbar/105 Sherman. Doing so makes both significantly less cheesy, and significantly more universally useful... though obviously it does erode their uniqueness.

Brief summary of potential changes: larger AOE for both, lower damage to the point where they don't oneshot, faster refire cycle, quicker aim-time.
Perhaps it's worth considering, though from what Sanders has said; the Balance Team is reasonably happy with the Sturm and AVRE, so it's likely they'll remain pretty much as-is. It is a bit risky to make big changes to units without a strict need with such an uncertainty about future patches.

The best solution is just make the sturmtiger esentially the same with the AVRE, same reload, same aoe and damage, same speed, no "OP" mini grenade sturm tiger skill with that no more whining about balance cuz it literally is

The best solution is just make the sturmtiger esentially the same with the AVRE, same reload, same aoe and damage, same speed, no "OP" mini grenade sturm tiger skill with that no more whining about balance cuz it literally is

AVRE would then be superior due to turret...

Ok, I've had some easy games where I got the SturmTiger out and used it on blobs. It sucks. Wtf am I missing??
The super slow aiming, the long long delay before firing. And it's taking bazooka shots like crazy that, yes it will survive, but it will have to go be repaired and out of service for minutes now. Even with commander repairs active and being repaired by engies.

The blob usually starts juking and gets hit for like 25% of them at best.

It needs more range or something. Having to drive UP TO THE BLOB to fire in 6 seconds means you take a ton of damage for something an artillery piece or grenade bundle could do.

AVRE would then be superior due to turret...

sturm can get 5 vet and the best way to use these units is move in a straight line where your target is, so lower the time to fire..don't really need the turret, turret rotating gives the enemy unit more time to react

sturm can get 5 vet and the best way to use these units is move in a straight line where your target is, so lower the time to fire..don't really need the turret, turret rotating gives the enemy unit more time to react

Rotating the vehicle to fire gives more time to react than rotating the turret...

Rotating the vehicle to fire gives more time to react than rotating the turret...

ofcourse, but why would you need to rotate the vehicle? I mean would you use these things versus a moving medium tank?

ofcourse, but why would you need to rotate the vehicle? I mean would you use these things versus a moving medium tank?

Turreted vehicles are inherently superior to Casemates. You can't always "move in a straight line towards your target", and being able to move parallel to your target, turn your turret, fire, and then immediately reverse along the same path to escape is obviously better than having to them turn the entire vehicle to move away.

It also allows you to ensure your front is towards enemy AT solutions, and to more easily and quickly track a moving blob without exposing yourself more than needs be.

As a final thing, the AVRE has much less of a tell as to when it's gearing up to fire when compared to the Sturmtiger, making it far harder to react to.

In general, it just allows you to be much more flexible, I'm not sure what "Using it versus a moving tank" has to do with anything.

Turreted vehicles are inherently superior to Casemates. You can't always "move in a straight line towards your target", and being able to move parallel to your target, turn your turret, fire, and then immediately reverse along the same path to escape is obviously better than having to them turn the entire vehicle to move away.

It also allows you to ensure your front is towards enemy AT solutions, and to more easily and quickly track a moving blob without exposing yourself more than needs be.

As a final thing, the AVRE has much less of a tell as to when it's gearing up to fire when compared to the Sturmtiger, making it far harder to react to.

In general, it just allows you to be much more flexible, I'm not sure what "Using it versus a moving tank" has to do with anything.

First thing first, if I want to deal with blobs I would rather build a stuka than either of this tanks. Moving in a straight line towards your target is the best case scenario and what you should aiming for using this units.
These units also were like made to counter support weapons, AT guns? I would just ignore it and fire in their face. If the at gun is well supported then I'll support my sturmtiger too. If that's not possible then just stuka it.

In the current state of the game AVRE is better than Sturm and I'm only telling my previous "opinions" when if they got the exact same stats and be literally the same

First thing first, if I want to deal with blobs I would rather build a stuka than either of this tanks. Moving in a straight line towards your target is the best case scenario and what you should aiming for using this units.
These units also were like made to counter support weapons, AT guns? I would just ignore it and fire in their face. If the at gun is well supported then I'll support my sturmtiger too. If that's not possible then just stuka it.

In the current state of the game AVRE is better than Sturm and I'm only telling my previous "opinions" when if they got the exact same stats and be literally the same

The Stuka is for team weapons, not for Blobs, and surprisingly you don't actually have the Stuka if you're playing an army that has access to the AVRE.

Both the AVRE and Sturmtiger are intended to fight blobs of infantry while being survivable in the face of AT. Sure, they can drive up and fire upon team weapons, but that's kind of not why you build them, and it requires that you dive rather more deeply into enemy lines (especially in the case of AT guns) than you really might like.

Also: "Best Case Scenario" is, as the name suggests, in the best case. You cannot always drive up in a straight line and shoot an apparently immobile blob, in the same way you can't always loop around the sturmtiger with your T-34 and shoot it in the rear armour until it dies, which is the best-case scenario for that engagement. You have to account for scenarios that are not "best case", which is what most of them will be.

In your hypothetical scenario where both the AVRE and SturmTiger had the same shell statistics, the AVRE would still be superior due to its turret, that's what's being argued. They wouldnt be "Literally the same", even if you were to normalise their armour, HP, range, speed etcetera as well, simply due to the fact the AVRE has a turret.

The Stuka is for team weapons, not for Blobs, and surprisingly you don't actually have the Stuka if you're playing an army that has access to the AVRE.

Both the AVRE and Sturmtiger are intended to fight blobs of infantry while being survivable in the face of AT. Sure, they can drive up and fire upon team weapons, but that's kind of not why you build them, and it requires that you dive rather more deeply into enemy lines (especially in the case of AT guns) than you really might like.

Also: "Best Case Scenario" is, as the name suggests, in the best case. You cannot always drive up in a straight line and shoot an apparently immobile blob, in the same way you can't always loop around the sturmtiger with your T-34 and shoot it in the rear armour until it dies, which is the best-case scenario for that engagement. You have to account for scenarios that are not "best case", which is what most of them will be.

In your hypothetical scenario where both the AVRE and SturmTiger had the same shell statistics, the AVRE would still be superior due to its turret, that's what's being argued. They wouldnt be "Literally the same", even if you were to normalise their armour, HP, range, speed etcetera as well, simply due to the fact the AVRE has a turret.

Let's be real here stuka works for team weapon and blobs if you don't use it versus blobs you either had no issues with blobs or just doing something wrong.

There is a reason why the AVRE and the Sturmtiger had the repotation of a meme tank because it is not REALLY needed.

Why would you need Best case scenario? because REALLY good players can just move their units and dodge you though this is moreso on AVRE, this is the only advantage sturmtiger has.

I really had no issue with this turret thing. They can just also buff the turn rate to compensate for the no turret thing, if everyone reallyyyy need it. Also sturm can get 5 vet making it better

Let's be real here stuka works for team weapon and blobs if you don't use it versus blobs you either had no issues with blobs or just doing something wrong.

There is a reason why the AVRE and the Sturmtiger had the repotation of a meme tank because it is not REALLY needed.

Why would you need Best case scenario? because REALLY good players can just move their units and dodge you though this is moreso on AVRE, this is the only advantage sturmtiger has.

I really had no issue with this turret thing. They can just also buff the turn rate to compensate for the no turret thing, if everyone reallyyyy need it. Also sturm can get 5 vet making it better

The Stuka is significantly less effective vs blobs as opposed to other rocket artillery such as the Panzerwerfer (Due to the Werfer's much larger area of effect) or the Katyusha (Due to the speed at which rockets arrive on target). If you are managing to Stuka a blob your opponent is terrible, as the linear nature of the Stuka's projectiles, and the slow speed at which it reaches the target, gives an opponent more than enough time to react, particularly if you're positing that they are able to simply dodge AVRE and Sturmtiger shots perfectly. You are also required to predict well in advance of where the blob will even go.

This linear nature is what makes it effective vs team weapons, however. They are far less responsive, and you are able to place shells precisely where the weapons are (Multiple weapons, generally, due to the length of rocket's linear placement). The Stuka is an anti-team weapon platform, not one to deal with blobs.

Also, again, UKF don't have the Stuka.

The AVRE and Sturmtiger are Meme tanks not because they are not "really needed", but because they are extremely cheesy and expensive, and very all-or-nothing.

You anecdotally having "no issue" with a lack of turret doesn't mean it isnt a weakness of the Sturmtiger, and buffing the Sturmtiger turnrate simply does nothing to counter several of the weaknesses I've suggested. I hope you realise that "Five vet" on OKW units is no longer necessarily them being "Better" at vet5 than another faction's equivalent unit at vet3, right? Its primarily a flavour thing... and on top of this, reaching veterancy 5 on a Sturmtiger takes an absolute ton of XP, you arent getting a Vet5 Sturmtiger in every game. Hell, all vet5 on the sturmtiger does is allow it to do what the AVRE can already do (At no risk, due to lacking the Sturmtiger's "lol oops you got abandoned ))" if it's shot while reloading)