So UKF rework when?

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 19:11 PMthedarkarmadillo

You are missing my meaning entirely.
Commanders are optional. As such they have no direct weight on the faction balance. They can easily not be brought or not be owned whilst the faction core is ever present. The core faction needs to work regardless of what commander.
Brits need work and while that work is done commanders shouldn't even be considered in the process as they can be tuned separately and individually as needed without impacting anything but themselves

Jump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 19:11 PMthedarkarmadillo

You are missing my meaning entirely.
Commanders are optional. As such they have no direct weight on the faction balance. They can easily not be brought or not be owned whilst the faction core is ever present. The core faction needs to work regardless of what commander.
Brits need work and while that work is done commanders shouldn't even be considered in the process as they can be tuned separately and individually as needed without impacting anything but themselves

Jump back to quoted post8 Feb 2021, 20:22 PMgeneral_gawain

I completely understand you. But if you really want to reduce it on the nondoc stock units, then something is horribly designed. Take a USF/UKF team in 3v3 and 4vs4 for example. Not a single piece of somehow long ranged artillery. They are pretty screwed in its core in big game modes and it gets hard already at 2vs2 while it is not that much of a problem in 1vs1.
you don't understand me because what I'm saying is that this shouldn't be the case. Every faction should work without commanders. Every faction should have whatever tools are deemed necessary stock in some capacity

Another example: Soviet has Shock Troops / Guards as elite units on so many commanders that they are practically getting their missing stock elite unit there. Most of the soviet commander who have neither of these have Conscript Assault Package Upgrade to make Conscripts in early to midgame more competitive. It is pretty much a “stock” mechanic of soviets to boost heir infantry options. It is similar for soviet tank options but not to that extent.
this is a result of TRYING to use commanders to make a shitty stock faction work. But despite that soviet have come leagues from when that was the case. Penals are formidable, cons have an upgrade. The su85 is arguably TOO good as opposed to not suffecient. Soviet has only gotten better as stock options have opened up. Long gone are the days of not having the right commander and the game being over as a result. This was a good direction.
One last question: On paper it totally sounds good to balance core first but is it really possible in reality? How do you want to balance around core faction if there are no games played with both sides choosing no commander? Playtesting a hundred to thousand games without commander? All the casual/ranked games out there get influenced by choosing a commander at some point somehow. You won't get reliable data.
obviously it's probably too far in the life cycle of the game now, but it should be from the ground up ideally. Failing that many of the remaining players are lifers, I'm sure we could get some donated games in as a community to get some statistics if we wanted to. A core tournament would also be a way to see the higher end of things. Some things however are obvious like a late game blob buster being a requirement. Suppression. Garrison clearing. Smoke. Heavy AT. These are things that are missing in a few of the WFA factions. There can be off kilter ways of providing these things, but they should be there in some realistically accessible capacity

Jump back to quoted post9 Feb 2021, 04:16 AMthedarkarmadillo

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Jump back to quoted post9 Feb 2021, 19:38 PMgeneral_gawain

Don't get me wrong. If you do think that every faction should work completely without a commander, I'm totally with you. I argued as I did because I took the more realistic aopproach that factions will not be reworked to that extend. If you don't rework them to that extend you have to include commanders to get it somehow balanced by promoting a handful of commanders to automatic picks (because they fill the blank spots of the faction). In an ideal game you would rework factions totally - as you suggested - yeah, then you are absolutely right, commanders should be just the icing of the cake which you can balance individually.

Looking at the current debatte at UKF where dev team already rejected the proposal to give UKF a real artillery piece beside reworked mortar pit (-> land matress) I'm quite pessimistic that it will happen ever.

Jump back to quoted post9 Feb 2021, 19:38 PMgeneral_gawain

Don't get me wrong. If you do think that every faction should work completely without a commander, I'm totally with you. I argued as I did because I took the more realistic aopproach that factions will not be reworked to that extend. If you don't rework them to that extend you have to include commanders to get it somehow balanced by promoting a handful of commanders to automatic picks (because they fill the blank spots of the faction). In an ideal game you would rework factions totally - as you suggested - yeah, then you are absolutely right, commanders should be just the icing of the cake which you can balance individually.

Looking at the current debatte at UKF where dev team already rejected the proposal to give UKF a real artillery piece beside reworked mortar pit (-> land matress) I'm quite pessimistic that it will happen ever.

Jump back to quoted post9 Feb 2021, 20:51 PMPip

An alternate (And I think potentially interesting) option might be a new three-man "Forward Observer" squad, that could perhaps set up like the USF major with an antenna, and could direct mortar-like fire, and smoke, from the UKF base howitzers, in a mortar-ranged circle around the squad. This has a couple of inherent issues though, regarding damage/consistency with other usage of the UKF howitzers, and the fact that this "team weapon" can't be stolen by the enemy, unlike every other team weapon.

Jump back to quoted post10 Feb 2021, 00:28 AMSupport Sapper

This can be included in a rework for the assault officer as an upgrade path you can pick beside smg. It can be something like an "command section" stat with 4 man and rifle then can chose between tow upgrade, one is assault officer which add a 5th man and smg, the other one is "forward observation officer" as above.

the shell will take longer than other mortar to arrive and there will be only one of him at a time so balance him around is doable.

Jump back to quoted post10 Feb 2021, 07:09 AMOlekman

I like this idea. After all, mutually exclusive army upgrades were a British thing at release, so extending that idea to their one-off officer squad is actually quite clever!

Jump back to quoted post14 Feb 2021, 06:07 AMCODGUY

A UKF rework would be nice as long as they're not letting Wehraboos make all the changes like they apparently did the last few patches.

Look at crap they did over the last year:

- Reduced armor on UC

- No upgrades to UC before PLCP teching

- No bolster before teching to PLCP

- Reduced dps on Tommies

- Churchill tank increased in price, but worse POP jumped way up to 19

- Grenade removed from Churchill

Seriously, which Wehraboos came up with these changes?

Jump back to quoted post14 Feb 2021, 07:44 AMthedarkarmadillo

Faction fanaticism is a hell of a thing. There was a guy on here once that claimed the elefant was one axis' multiple monsters and said its AI was too much. Some people just don't understand balance since they only play one side.