So UKF rework when?
1 Feb 2021, 21:09 PM
#21
Posts: 84
id love to see an experimental change of having engineer as starting unit instead of the section, and adding in a "requisition valentine" tech option similiar to the aec. Maybe even split hammer/ anvil into simple ostheer style t3 and t4, where t3 has centaur, crom, firefly and t4 churchill, comet and maybe sexton? So many ways to make this faction more interesting, but I dont think relic will allow the scope for this
1 Feb 2021, 21:12 PM
#22
Posts: 1594
were of the same mind i think for the cause/effect of bolster and the need to make it non-global
lend lease is kind of tricky for sure, but since ass tommies are a unique unit now and not an upgrade for existing unit the ability to heal could have been implemented on the squads if need be (vet like ost, or unlocked with tech, or even self heal like many units have now. the commander also comes with the m5 quad, which can now heal units inside- far from perfect, but when combined with the starting tommy being able to be a medic and the FA being able to get medics i think it woulda been fine) or an ambulance upgrade for the UC unlocked with the commander.
whats more, the brit player could just....build more regular tommies if they felt there wasnt enough heals.... its not like ostheer gets a new way to snare units if they pick up ass grens. they have to integrate a snare unit into their build or suffer.
the way i see it, is a commander has issues you dont change the stock faction to "fix" that commander, you change the commander. its better to have the problem isolated in that commander until fixed than making a change that will effect everything entirely.
Snaring is admittedly different to Healing, as far as "Vital to the game" is concerned.
1 Feb 2021, 21:15 PM
#23
Posts: 1594
id love to see an experimental change of having engineer as starting unit instead of the section, and adding in a "requisition valentine" tech option similiar to the aec. Maybe even split hammer/ anvil into simple ostheer style t3 and t4, where t3 has centaur, crom, firefly and t4 churchill, comet and maybe sexton? So many ways to make this faction more interesting, but I dont think relic will allow the scope for this
Hammer and Anvil would have been a fine and interesting design for UKF teching if it was a little more fleshed out, perhaps either being an early (and linear) choice that changed (almost) all your units, or being a branching system to tailor your army in certain ways... but as it stands it's just a lategame choice between two tanks (And a couple of other gimmicks for each, but the Comet and Churchill are the main things you choose one or the other for).
I think UKF needed several more months of design and iteration before release.
1 Feb 2021, 21:30 PM
#24
Posts: 63
How about giving free bolster when teching tier 3 like Soviet? Next reinforcement gonna cost 50 muni+ 23 man. Also tech 3 can upgrade both Anvil and Hammer if u want. Or better yet, remove bolster and make IS 5man + -25% movespeed. Assault Section can be a unit in tier 2 with upgradable Thompson, Tier 3 gives Assault Officer with stat like Ober clone and has Bren Elite? Sapper can be moved to Tier 1
1 Feb 2021, 21:57 PM
#25
Posts: 208
Hammer and Anvil would have been a fine and interesting design for UKF teching if it was a little more fleshed out, perhaps either being an early (and linear) choice that changed (almost) all your units, or being a branching system to tailor your army in certain ways... but as it stands it's just a lategame choice between two tanks (And a couple of other gimmicks for each, but the Comet and Churchill are the main things you choose one or the other for).
I think UKF needed several more months of design and iteration before release.
I think that instead of having a strict choice and then following a linear teching path from it, it would be better if choices at T1 were more impactful. Instead of "Bofors or AEC" (which soon won't be exclusive, but that's for the better), it would be more interesting if there was "mini-Anvil or mini-Hammer" to further drive the "two armies in one" as Relic used to promote Brits. Something like unit + passive/upgrade. Bolster would be a great candidate for such "mini-Anvil" in my opinion, but that train departed many years ago. It's better to focus on making the Brits better with their current design (as much as I dislike it).
2 Feb 2021, 14:39 PM
#26
Posts: 5279
Snaring is admittedly different to Healing, as far as "Vital to the game" is concerned.
Yes and no. Both are very important, but either way, unlike a snare from ost if they go all in ass grens, ukf ALREADY always has heals. It's not as cost effecient but it's there.
#stalinwept
2 Feb 2021, 14:57 PM
#27
Posts: 1594
Yes and no. Both are very important, but either way, unlike a snare from ost if they go all in ass grens, ukf ALREADY always has heals. It's not as cost effecient but it's there.
UKF do start with one healing section, sure, but unlike all other faction's healing options their primary heal source is a mainline combat unit, that is expected to be on the frontlines. This means that healing is much less available to other UKF units when the player goes Assault Tommies, as the sole healing source won't always be in a position to heal their other units. (Not to mention the fact that Sections can instead opt to upgrade to a pyro section, which would be entirely unviable without another source of healing.)
You can do without snares (Sort of), but you can't really do without healing.
I mean, I'd prefer they just get base healing like SOV... or allow Sappers to build a stripped-down version of the Forward Assembly that acts simply as a healing bunker. Medics do feel like a bit of a bandaid solution... and do cost population.
2 Feb 2021, 15:28 PM
#28
Posts: 4474
mhh actually Cromwell has the best pen of all medium stock tanks, and is receving more buff in this patch both ai (buff to mgs and rotation and vet 2) and vet 1 (more ACC on the move and more pen timied)
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Feb 2021, 15:46 PM
#29
Posts: 1594
mhh actually Cromwell has the best pen of all medium stock tanks, and is receving more buff in this patch both ai (buff to mgs and rotation and vet 2) and vet 1 (more ACC on the move and more pen timied)
Yes, and?
The Cromwell fights more heavily armoured tanks than the Axis, for example, who penetrate allied stock tanks with their PIV's at a higher rate than Cromwells penetrate them, despite lower penetration values. (Until max range, when the PIV actually has better pen than the Cromwell for some reason.)
This becomes a much greater difference when fighting vet2 OST PIVs and stock OKW PIVs.
The t34 is also cheaper than the Cromwell, and the Sherman has other benefits to make up for its lower penetration values.
Do you think it's a cause for concern that the Cromwell has more penetration?
2 Feb 2021, 15:56 PM
#30
Posts: 4474
yes but then u have other bonus reload etc , and cost is counted to mobility too (if u look u will find if axis get bonus armor the allies get an equivalent reload/pen buff with vet),OP was specifically complaining about its ai and at , FOR THE PRICE its quite good and will be evn better after patch
after the mod team had their hand on the game they changed the design philosophy from giving free armor to axis and free pen to allies to the tanks actually paying exactly what they have but instead focusing the resource in 1 aspect of the tank (p4 + armor and ai,Cromwell speed and at, Sherman moving ACC and AI,t-34 cheap and ai)
after the mod team had their hand on the game they changed the design philosophy from giving free armor to axis and free pen to allies to the tanks actually paying exactly what they have but instead focusing the resource in 1 aspect of the tank (p4 + armor and ai,Cromwell speed and at, Sherman moving ACC and AI,t-34 cheap and ai)
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Feb 2021, 16:05 PM
#31
Posts: 1594
yes but then u have other bonus reload etc , and cost is counted to mobility too (if u look u will find if axis get bonus armor the allies get an equivalent reload/pen buff with vet),OP was specifically complaining about its ai and at , FOR THE PRICE its quite good and will be evn better after patch
after the mod team had their hand on the game they changed the design philosophy from giving free armor to axis and free pen to allies to the tanks actually paying exactly what they have but instead focusing the resource in 1 aspect of the tank (p4 + armor and ai,Cromwell speed and at, Sherman moving ACC and AI,t-34 cheap and ai)
Allied stock mediums, including the Cromwell, do not get penetration bonuses with Veterancy.
2 Feb 2021, 16:13 PM
#32
Posts: 4474
1 i was referring to the patch (the Cromwell now gets a 20% more pen ability)
Allied stock mediums, including the Cromwell, do not get penetration bonuses with Veterancy.
2 and said RELOAD/pen (both work and arguably reload is better as it works better vs rear armor , AI and low target armor )
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Feb 2021, 16:29 PM
#33
Posts: 1594
1 i was referring to the patch (the Cromwell now gets a 20% more pen ability)
2 and said RELOAD/pen (both work and arguably reload is better as it works better vs rear armor , AI and low target armor )
The penetration bonus you mention is an ability, not a generic "bonus". You'd need to mention the defensive and offensive bonuses given by Blitzkrieg and Combat blitz for a fair comparison there.
EDIT: Further, I uncertain if the Cromwell, Panzer IV, and Panzer IV j have the same base firerate.
2 Feb 2021, 16:44 PM
#34
Posts: 4474
https://coh2.serealia.ca/#43 for stats (no preview patch tho)
blitz kerig and combat blitz don't increase AT power tho, and for example a vet 2 Cromwell is actually faster than a blitz kreir p4
https://youtu.be/ABEy8WomBAs?t=731
blitz kerig and combat blitz don't increase AT power tho, and for example a vet 2 Cromwell is actually faster than a blitz kreir p4
https://youtu.be/ABEy8WomBAs?t=731
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Feb 2021, 17:00 PM
#35
Posts: 1594
https://coh2.serealia.ca/#43 for stats (no preview patch tho)
blitz kerig and combat blitz don't increase AT power tho, and for example a vet 2 Cromwell is actually faster than a blitz kreir p4
https://youtu.be/ABEy8WomBAs?t=731
Movement accuracy and target size are affected by Blitz, to my knowledge.
2 Feb 2021, 17:18 PM
#36
Posts: 179
mhh actually Cromwell has the best pen of all medium stock tanks
No..it doesn't.
Sherman is better at short and tied at medium, both Panzer IVs are better at long.
2 Feb 2021, 17:37 PM
#37
Posts: 1594
No..it doesn't.
Sherman is better at short and tied at medium, both Panzer IVs are better at long.
According to this statsheet the Cromwell does indeed have the best close penetration. I can't guarantee this is accurate, but I haven't seen any conflicting information.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H5z6szCfhmAAnDprmgwLzc-viZg4HPhKZshNLErvnck/edit#gid=1638665511
2 Feb 2021, 17:41 PM
#38
Posts: 4474
well by overall margins yes it has more pen (if u compare the pen to other and add it)
No..it doesn't.
Sherman is better at short and tied at medium, both Panzer IVs are better at long.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Feb 2021, 18:01 PM
#39
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
https://coh2.serealia.ca/#43 for stats (no preview patch tho)
blitz kerig and combat blitz don't increase AT power tho, and for example a vet 2 Cromwell is actually faster than a blitz kreir p4
https://youtu.be/ABEy8WomBAs?t=731
OH Blitz provides 0.25 RA
OKW Combat Blitz does provide AT power in the form of 25% RoF + 20% acc
The Cromwell swapped the bonuses from vet 2 with vet 3. Basically traded it's main gun effectiveness for mobility.
Overall Cromwell is not that much of an issue.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
2 Feb 2021, 18:03 PM
#40
Posts: 179
According to this statsheet the Cromwell does indeed have the best close penetration. I can't guarantee this is accurate, but I haven't seen any conflicting information.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H5z6szCfhmAAnDprmgwLzc-viZg4HPhKZshNLErvnck/edit#gid=1638665511
Use https://coh2.serealia.ca/
Stein's sheets are really helpful, but occasionally inaccurate. The Sherman's penetration should be 140/120/100.
well by overall margins yes it has more pen (if u compare the pen to other and add it)
T-34 120/100/80 Penetration
PzIV 125/115/110 Penetration (both variants)
Sherman 140/120/100 Penetration (AP Version)
Cromwell 135/120/105 Penetration
Sherman has the best close pen, PzIVs have the best far Pen. Sherman ties the Cromwell if we are adding pens together. (although I think adding pens together to determine strength makes 0 sense)
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