What the PRO's think of COH2

I don't think you need global upgrades to add depth they just need to add more compelling fuel expenditure options pretty t3/4cp, especially for the soviets, doesn't have to be global upgrades. The funny thing is a lot of the fuel options you have early also require a muni cost to go with them ie flamer halftrack and flamer sc.

I'm not a pro, but here is my input. Much of this has already been reiterated many times over.

vCoh had so much longevity because it was polished, well balanced (save for more than a few hiccups after ToV came out) and you never felt cheated after a loss. The game stayed fresh for so many years because there was always something I could point to that I could have done better in order to win. The meta game was simple, yet extremely deep. There were only 3 doctrines, and yet the game never got stale. CoH isn't the franchise to try and turn into a C&C spamfest(*COUGH*Soviet Industry). If I lost, it was because I made mistakes that I could learn from. The gameplay felt snappy, the micro was intense, and the early game infantry tactical play was extremely rewarding.

With this most recent patch, CoH2 has crossed a threshold it cannot return from. It will never be the polished, strategically exquisite game that its predecessor was. Its practically arcade mode now, it feels like a mod. It would be one thing if CoH2 was released with all of the current content made available for everyone. However, this current system SCREAMS money grab. During the beta, relic promised they wouldn't release game changing commanders for money, and that everyone would play under the same fundamental structure. How can they claim to live up to that statement when they have released Soviet Industry, and Elite Troops? Both of which fundamentally change the way the game is played, and you have to pay for it. But wait, there's more to come!

That doesn't even touch on the now impossible job of balance. It took years to iron out all of the kinks in vcoh, and they weren't releasing new units and abilities once every 2 months. At this rate, the meta will never have time to settle, and we will never get the wonderful opportunity to fully learn how to counter the new units and commanders. By the time the meta has settled, everyone will be on to the new FOM units. People are going to turn away from the game(if this keeps up I know I am) when they feel cheated by being handed a loss before the game has even started. Your turning the game into an arms race of commander choices. A match shouldn't hinge on commander choice, especially when purchased commanders change the game so fundamentally.

A simple fix to the commander bloat is to stop the automatic CP allocation once a commander is chosen, and allow for manual allocation across all three. Redundant commander abilities would be obstacles to unlocking late-game abilities and units, and add a component to choosing an efficient load-out.

Commanders would then become an adaptive and dynamic doctrine tree for players to customize and develop new strategies with. The linear one-track commander method is just, well, stale.

Love that idea, but i can see combos that might cause a problem.

With the latest DLC, most definitely.

Such as FHQs, the t2 commander AND soviet industry. Or perhaps Hue hue hue vet3 Elefant with smoke!

But in a sane world, I'd expect tweaking and balancing those combos to be the role of the balance team. You know, rather than having to play games of CoH2 to figure out how the game is broken post-patch and post-release.

This isn't on the balance team, it's on the commander design team. The balance team has been great. Peter's communication has been amazing and he's engaged in meaningful discussions with the community regarding balance.

My understanding is the balance team doesn't touch the commanders until after they are put in the game. And the commander design team has been entirely unresponsive.

Alright, that's good to know.

There really needs to be a flowchart to who is responsible for what at Relic.

Yeaa problem is playing the blame game doesn't actually solve anything. Though it does make you feel a whole lot better.

Tell me what's harder - to gain vet 3 in combat (only one infantry unit) or buy it (for all infantry units)? Late game in COH1 was fatal for US - their weak tanks could do nothing to vet 3 Panthers. COH2 is pretty fair in this aspect - SU has some reliable counters at least (SU-85) while US didn't. Story is repeating in COH2 with this stupid buyable veterancy.

That would mean that, unless the WM player had full map control for the entire match, his other unvetted units would be torn to bits by the American's vetted units. The buyable vet made WM players choose where they wanted to base their strategy on... That, for me at least, made vCoH such an entising game.

That would mean that, unless the WM player had full map control for the entire match, his other unvetted units would be torn to bits by the American's vetted units. The buyable vet made WM players choose where they wanted to base their strategy on... That, for me at least, made vCoH such an entising game.

Now, german has the better from both games.

They can vet as usual or they can purchase their vet.
Personally, I don't like at all the new Elite Commander.
Neither the abilites it gives nor the Tiger Ace have a place in CoH2.

Im ok with the Vet on Elite.
Cons+PPSH or Shocks force Vetted even LMGs out of position easily for much cheaper.

The fuel drain is serious. Just get an earlier vehicle and bleed them.

Most problematic for me has been vet Mortars, but since they dont have Precision Strike, its manageable.

I think the Vet is fine. TA however, not. But that has been discussed and options offered.

I think the fuel cost for Vet is reasonable and ok.

Now, german has the better from both games.

They can vet as usual or they can purchase their vet.
Personally, I don't like at all the new Elite Commander.
Neither the abilites it gives nor the Tiger Ace have a place in CoH2.

I completely agree with that mate

Im ok with the Vet on Elite.
Cons+PPSH or Shocks force Vetted even LMGs out of position easily for much cheaper.

The fuel drain is serious. Just get an earlier vehicle and bleed them.

Most problematic for me has been vet Mortars, but since they dont have Precision Strike, its manageable.

I think the Vet is fine. TA however, not. But that has been discussed and options offered.

I think the fuel cost for Vet is reasonable and ok.

You shouldn't be able to vet any indirect fire unit as mortars, panzerwerfers and leFH.
These units, specially the last two, can be too hard to counter in certain maps and soviet vet 1 arty can do nothing to counter fire.

If Ost Mortars had Precision Strike, I would agree.
If Counter-Barrage actually did a goddam thing, I would agree.

But they dont.

And lol at complaining about Vetting Panzerwerfer which is probably the least played unit, ever, in 1v1 or leFH, which is a sitting duck to any offmap.

20 fuel for Vet is fine. Its a serious tradeoff, with the indirect result that units engaging them gain vet faster than they usually would.

The flat xp value also works fine in relation to applying it to more expensive units, which require more xp to vet, proportionately. Grens get v3, PIVs get only V1.

The TA is a mess, but I think the Vet on this Commander is ok for cost and effect.

I laugh when I see v3 units, knowing he just sunk 55MP/20F into them, and I get just get faster vet from killing them as well as the tech advantage.

Vetting inf is a waste anyway imo. It delays armour as others have said.

Getting a P4 out as fast as possible and then vetting it to vet2 as soon as it comes out is quite lethal, followed by another, followed by Ace.

A vetted panzerwerfer can destroy a T2 soviet player.

And I expect 2vs2 games being balanced too, not only 1vs1.
Purchasing vet is sufficient powerful in 2vs2 to be worth reviewing that commander for a proper balance.

t4 indirect fire is op against camping with weapon teams!!!!! nerf it!!! but first look up the definition of "hard counter"

t4 indirect fire is op against camping with weapon teams!!!!! nerf it!!! but first look up the definition of "hard counter"

If you refer to my post, I didn't write the words "nerf" and "hard counter" anywhere.

I just said that vet bonuses for arty are really really great (more range and fire rate) and I don't think they were at first intended to win as easily as purchasing them with resources.

And please, stop using that patronizing tone.
With just one Nullist there are more than enough. We can talk like grown up people here.

haha i was mainly making a joke. you didnt say hard counter, i did, because thats what a panzerwerfer is to stationary weapon teams. as for "nerf", you have been saying vetting is too powerful and the commander needs to be changed for "proper balance". this all implies you are asking for a nerf.

it just doesnt make sense to point to a vet panzerwerfer destroying t2 as proof that vet is too good. even before this patch i would always build panzerwerfers against t2 spam. its the hard counter with or without vet (purchased or not). nullist actually has a point here. purchasing vet is very expensive. it takes like 165 mp and 60 fuel to get those stat bonuses youre talking about. thats practically the price of another werfer.

haha i was mainly making a joke. you didnt say hard counter, i did, because thats what a panzerwerfer is to stationary weapon teams. as for "nerf", you have been saying vetting is too powerful and the commander needs to be changed for "proper balance". this all implies you are asking for a nerf.

I wasn't asking a nerf to panzerwerfer, but to Elite Troops Commander.

Seriously, vetted arty is too powerful in maps like Semoisky, where they can fire from their base and reach all the middle map.
It's expensive but not unaffordable in long matches.

What I'm trying to say is that purchasing vet doesn't cope well in CoH2 where germans can vet normally, unlike CoH1. Giving the opportunity to vet, although expensive, is unbalanced.
For example, a vet 2 PzIV is worth its vetting price for the survavility bonus it wins.

The vetting ability gets more and more ridculous as the game progresses. Just get a P4 to supplement your already established army,and watch how your healthy resource income negates all negative effects which were supposed to be there by vetting your P4 to vet2. Even after the last patch,a insta vetted Vet 2 P4 is extremely lethal. Its generally fine,because you have to use the P4 well to get it to Vet 2. This however is not necessary with the elite commander - youre just 3 clicks and a handful of resources away from your new,shining Vet 2 P4 ready to roflstomp everything.