Future Balance Items by Relic

Then dont attack FHT with infantry. Not that there arent a multitude of ways to do so.
An over extended FHT deserves to get owned, and CAN be owned for a fraction of its cost by a multitude of options.
Its already relegated to a backline support role on current meta. Proper use of a FHT is to concrete a reinforce/fallback position. Charging and chasing brainlessly is suicidal, and rightly so.

Mines are "luck" dependant? My friend, this is just flat out wrong.
As I said earlier:
1) Mines rely on proper placement.
2) Mines rely on intelligent and deliberate luring of enemies into it.

There is no RNG/Luck factor involved at all. Im sorry, but Mine and Luck in the same sentence is just misuse of both terms. Mines are about as concrete a bet as you can get in this game.

You don't understand that T-70 got only small window when it's effective. Right before Germans tanks roll out. When this window passes than the unit is not so of a use anymore. T-70 always was micro dependent and can do some devastating blows but as soon as first tanks hit the field the T-70 dominance is over. The new commander allows to extend this window and strike when German would be unprepared and I never said that's ok. Quite the opposite. Unfortunately now the unit will get unnecessary nerf only to try to balance broken commander. What's more planed change for scatter will result in tanks being less effective against infantry what will hurt Soviets even more as they don't have reliable AT infantry and Panzer Grenadiers are a threat to most of the Soviet tanks while Germans don't have this problem as Guard Rifles can do sheep against anything bigger than Sdkf222.
Germans always favorite PG blobs will be even more devastating and instead of punishing this kind of gameplay it will do the opposite. 2 squads of PG can take out T-34 with 2 salvos and driving over them doesn't always work.


Now regarding mines and luck factor. What I meant was that even if you plant the mine you 're not guaranteed that tank will actually drive over them. You can invest 30 munition and get nothing. I guess I should have use the term "reliable" instead of luck so you wouldn't be confused. My bad.

Dont worry, dude. T70 has been due for a nerf for a long time. Has very little to do with Industry.

And don't worry, your use of the word "luck" didnt confuse me.
The word just doesn't mean what you think it does, nor does it apply to Mines.

The thing is that the T70 keeps killing full units on retreat. Thats why the scatter change would be great.

@Nullist
I saw you saying some really weird shit about the t70. Things like "yoyoing" (lol) in and out when facing a schreck. However you only have 1 automatch played as soviet so im wondering how youre able to judge things like that. Sometimes you make good points but discussing about micromanagement when you only have 1 automatch played seems inconsequential to me.

Qubix: Ive also watched hundreds of hours of streams and casts.

It doesnt matter whether I've played 1 or 1 million games as Sov.
Yoyoing with the T70 is no difference than doing it with any other vehicle to move in and out of LoS or range while reloading.

Are you telling me this is not something you have ever done, thought of doing, or seen others do?

First off, Nullist your "Sovjet #1" pic is one of the best things I've ever seen, thank you for that. Secondly, just to make everyone shut up, yes the T-70 is OP, obviously from it's ability to snipe units 7/10, but, it's not completely OP or invincible. Do I think having a scatter penalty would fix this, maybe, do I think making the T-70 more expensive might fix this, maybe, overall though I think it's fine as is if people learn to adapt. However I will say these facts to everyone:

1. A shreck squad in a building is impossible for a T-70 to kill and has the same range as a T-70, however it does miss from time to time, which is fair.

2. Recently T-70s have not been that strong as they've been in the past, i.e. Their health was decreased, they were more suceptible to get hit by at weapons, their health was reduced, panzerfausts seem to hit them all the time unlike before where it was easier to dodge, and the crush ability was also removed.

3. There are multiple ways to take out a T-70 or T-70 horde, these include; fast p4 tech, teller mines, riegal mines, shrecks in a halftrack, dbl paks at a distance, keeping 1-2 shreck squads next to a halftrack and constantly reinforcing them, and an mg when it's switched to AP rounds(works best in buildings since harder to kill).

why does everyone assume the scatter penality while moving is a mere t70 / soviet industry nerf? last time i checked there where like a handful of other tanks, which are all affected by this ofc the t70 suffers the most (since it has a very small aoe), but all panzers will have to be microed differently now while fighting infantry

i think it has the potential to be a very interesting effect of increasing combined arms play, potentially anyways.

and make tank combat a bit more realistic for all you realism nuts which isn't the point but still.

i think it has the potential to be a very interesting effect of increasing combined arms play, potentially anyways.

and make tank combat a bit more realistic for all you realism nuts which isn't the point but still.

yeah panzers wont wipe the late game of infantry as easy as they do now (i love infantry battles!)

I'd prefer not to see more nerfs to the t70. Rushes to get it out especially with industry leaves you very weak vs expanded ost t1. Yes it's a bother in the meta and you can win games by rushing it, but if Ivan or anyone who already plays great practises the same rush over and over you're going to get pretty good at, you'll get a feel for instance when you can safely get a 2nd or other stuff etc etc

My experience while not as high leveled as Ivan, frolicking around the 2v2 scene with the other nubsters is that the capable players are not afraid of the t70 NOR are they afraid of industry coupled with t70. They way they deal with it is to have a super strong grenadier presence in T1 meaning that overrunning the pak is completely impossible, and the rate of which lmg/vet grens w/ any kind of support shred through vanilla cons you can hardly keep up wit them.

I played a game vs Easy Cpu and some other of the top 100 2v2 ostheer and their T1 is so strong that t70 rushes and industry completely failed, the conscripts just cant get anything done

Another grossly overrated ability of it is it's killing power. It does not 1 shot grens, it's moderately useless vs cover and completely useless vs houses. It forces retreat of unsupported units, but that's just how this RTS is, a unsupported T34 sitting on a vp guarding a mg gets annihiliated if the P4 comes around and knows that the t34 has no support that will reach it in time.

By any reasonable comparison the light AI t70 and the AI of t34 is very weak, the t34 is extremely vulnernable to any kind of AT other than the p4 itself, which it still beats handily. And the t34 can easily be forced to kite panzergrenadiers for 3-4 shots before it hurts them enough to retreat. This tank is all about crazy casino luck vs infantry

A t34 vs p4 fight is not in anyway even at this moment. it's a decisive win for the p4

Whoever said that T-70 only has a small window of opportunity is correct, however, if you keep the T-70 alive and it gains vet is VERY useful all game as a recon vehicle, for harassing infantry, for capping VP's. It's basically a hard counter for German infantry if microed correctly.

The only change that needs to be made is its ability to be spammed.

and the AI of t34 is very weak
A t34 vs p4 fight is not in anyway even at this moment. it's a decisive win for the p4



Are u kidding me, the AI on the T34 is insane.
A T34 costs 85 fuel.......and less manpower, you want it to go toe to toe with a p4?

Nope not for it's price but it needs a role right? It's not good AT, it's very random whether or not it's good AI. All it's really good at is rear rams and meatshielding for SU85s. Yes it sometimes rapes 3 grenadiers in a shot but it cannot be relied upon to stop infantry grenading your at gun or charging your su85.

P4 is a great flanker and has modest AI and good AT power. T34.. it's mostly a ram. And it's meatshielding with a armor value that doesn't allow it to bounce most axis weapons.

My take is that the recent patch nerfed the AI of the t34 even more with the scatter thing.

Insane AI? It has to constanly kite, a true "hit" will usually only kill 1 man, it misses constantly and especially on the move.

Im not sure what game your playing. Btw these are proposed changes that have not yet been made.

T34's nearly always take 1-2 models of any inf sometimes 3, also it has a great ability to run over infantry very easily.

By the time a german player fields a p4 its very easy to field 2 T34's if the game has been even.

Even if a Gren trips it, its still pure profit.

Dude, seriously, really mega seriously, there is no LUCK involved in mines.

I know RNG is the catch-word of the month, but Mines are not related. At. All.

Are you certain you are not taking the mine out of context, as in looking at it in a vacuum?

Dont worry, dude. T70 has been due for a nerf for a long time. Has very little to do with Industry.

And don't worry, your use of the word "luck" didnt confuse me.
The word just doesn't mean what you think it does, nor does it apply to Mines.

Talking to you it's like talking to a wall...

T70 got nerfed few times already and now it will get nerfed even more cos that's how it is in CoH2. As I said before I expect every decent unit to be nerfed in the end. The system is simple. Is unit capable of killing other German unit by it's own? If the answer is yes then the unit is clearly OP and it gotta be nerfed.

How luck doesn't apply to mines? It does. If you're lucky enemy tank will be blown up by a mine. If you're not then it won't. If you're semi lucky mine will kill some less value target. If you're not lucky at all it will be blown up by an accidental shell and you'll waste 30 muni. Simple?


But the best thing is "I watch a lot of replays so I know Soviets". I will tell you something. I watch a lot of music videos and people singing but that doesn't make me a good singer. I watch a lot of people flying planes (a hobby of mine) but I have no idea how to fly one in real life. I watch a lot of F1. You got 1st person view camera and you can see how they drive but I don't have a clue how to drive F1 car..Damn I watched a man walking on a moon once does that make me an astronaut?
To give you game example. I play Dot2 and watch pro scene a lot. There are some heroes I'm familiar with and they are some I'm not. I watch them all and I know them all and I know what they can do but I have no idea how to play them or any deeper understanding of their mechanics because I simply never played them. I simply don't know these heroes. Your argument is simply bollocks. You can know Soviet units, you can know the army, you can have general idea how to play them but nothing will beat pure experience of playing and using the army yourself. That's the basics of learning RTS. You have to play every faction to simply know them. You can have your favorite one but you have to play the all to stay competitive. I am sure EVERYONE on this forum who takes RTS seriously and have some basic understanding of the genre will agree with me.

@OZ, your post makes alot of sense, have you played alot of germans?

If so then you would know that the T70 can be absolutely devastating in the hands of a good player.

I don't really mind what changes are made, i just want to see less units that can wipe whole squads on all factions.

why does everyone assume the scatter penality while moving is a mere t70 / soviet industry nerf? last time i checked there where like a handful of other tanks, which are all affected by this ofc the t70 suffers the most (since it has a very small aoe), but all panzers will have to be microed differently now while fighting infantry

Because Ostheer doesn't have to be afraid from soviet AT infantry. And except Ostwind, their tanks are no supposed to be fighting infantry.

On the other hand, barely all soviet tanks are AI, so the scatter penalty will be more punishing for them.

@OZ, your post makes alot of sense, have you played alot of germans?

If so then you would know that the T70 can be absolutely devastating in the hands of a good player.

I don't really mind what changes are made, i just want to see less units that can wipe whole squads on all factions.

Of course, but this applies to every other unit when used correctly. As I said before FHT can have similar effect when Soviet player is caught off guard and unprepared.

You have to play every faction to simply know them. You can have your favorite one but you have to play the all to stay competitive. I am sure EVERYONE on this forum who takes RTS seriously and have some basic understanding of the genre will agree with me.

What is your playercard?

cant get that scatter adjustment early enough... yeterday i lost 3 squads to a well microed t70 (2 of them being pgrens with shreks...) in the matter of seconds (both shreksquads somehow managed to only hit 1 shrek each...) though not at the same time (losing 2 shreks squads at the same time would have made me ragequit so hard, i would have entered format c:, and installed window '98 out of anger). enemy was in the top 200 though, so maybe i just got "outplayed" LOL

then today i was playing vs soviet industry. and this is where it gets really frustrating, with moving tanks sniping you infantry like theres no tomorrow. i managed to dispose of the first t70 quite easily, but although map control was in my favor, my opponent suddenly had 2 more t70 PLUS a t34 and reduced me to 1 grens squad + pios... i had retreated everything on sight of the t70s to reposition (my pak was at base, being down to 2 men) and he just shot them down while they ran. if it wasnt for my own P2W commander, which allowed me to vet my arriving p4 to vet 2 (which was rammed and killed by more t34s, but bought me the time to reorganize with a strong AT defense), i would have lost to a player roughly 7000 ranks below me... i by now agree elite doctrines tiger ace is in dire need of being altered, but the thing is you dont even get to call it in (i didnt call it), fighting a doctrine that rapes your poor little hanses, lutzes and fritzes before the 10 minute mark. if he was a little better at this game (he didnt destroy/recapture my abandoned paks/ moved all his tanks in 1 control group from the looks of it)

TL,DR: some flame and whine, but basically still urging relic to implement the scatter penality

P.S. in my defense: i decided to only pick Elite if my enemy is going either industry or dshks. as a soviet i use neither of these even when facing elite