MG42 over performing
11 Nov 2020, 13:28 PM
#61
Posts: 177
I am so done with noobs saying MG42 is balanced. When I try to attack it it just insta pins my units. You need to tactically group at least 2 or sometimes even 3 RM because of rigged RNG before you can win it. Not only is this not fair that you have a unit that basically can 1v2 the best infantry, it also encourages blobbing because that is the only way to beat these things. Only a 50cal is able to beat mg42 that has already been set up but that currently takes way too much time.
11 Nov 2020, 14:26 PM
#62
Posts: 1515
I am so done with noobs saying MG42 is balanced. When I try to attack it it just insta pins my units. You need to tactically group at least 2 or sometimes even 3 RM because of rigged RNG before you can win it. Not only is this not fair that you have a unit that basically can 1v2 the best infantry, it also encourages blobbing because that is the only way to beat these things. Only a 50cal is able to beat mg42 that has already been set up but that currently takes way too much time.
Mate, this whole forum is filled with crybabies and delusional people. It is what it is. MG42 is fine. It's the best MG that fits within the OST faction flavour (great team weapons). It's cancerous vs USF as they have to go for the mortar or granade unlock. One chips away at the MP for the tech/field presence, and the other chips away at the fuel for the tech/AAHT/Stuart. However, that's a problem of map balance. Some maps favor one side, some maps favor blobbing, or MGs in buildings or indirects... If there is anything that needs rework it's the maps. Some are plain idiotic or completely imbalanced that completely throws off the general balance of units.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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11 Nov 2020, 16:01 PM
#63
Posts: 1273
or MGs in buildings or indirects... If there is anything that needs rework it's the maps. Some are plain idiotic or completely imbalanced that completely throws off the general balance of units.
Regarding buildings, I think any MGs in buildings are overperforming due to the game's garrison mechanic. Thinking of it, any unit play that involves the inside of buildings/houses/garrisons is kind of a broken with some weird mechanic that does not really make sense anyway. It is reasonable that there's some garrison and building play in a WW2 scenario, but the way CoH2 implemented it is not that fun. One badly placed garrisonable building on a map can screw up encounters massively and easily change the outcome of a fight.
11 Nov 2020, 22:11 PM
#64
Posts: 888
How is the 50cal harder to get than an mg34?
The .50 is locked behind teching to LT specifically, the MG34 becomes available regardless of which T2 tech you choose.
11 Nov 2020, 22:13 PM
#65
Posts: 888
Regarding buildings, I think any MGs in buildings are overperforming due to the game's garrison mechanic. Thinking of it, any unit play that involves the inside of buildings/houses/garrisons is kind of a broken with some weird mechanic that does not really make sense anyway. It is reasonable that there's some garrison and building play in a WW2 scenario, but the way CoH2 implemented it is not that fun. One badly placed garrisonable building on a map can screw up encounters massively and easily change the outcome of a fight.
Flamethrowers do a great job clearing buildings but they're difficult to get unless you're the Soviets or OST.
11 Nov 2020, 23:04 PM
#66
Posts: 1594
Flamethrowers do a great job clearing buildings but they're difficult to get unless you're the Soviets or OST.
Brits rather commonly get WASPs on building centric maps, so they're not all that terrible for flamethrowers either.
At the point you (should) lose your WASP buildings are somewhat less a concern, arguably.
12 Nov 2020, 07:14 AM
#67
Posts: 1979
Its actually the MG34 with the higher suppression per bullet. However, the MG42 compensates with a higher rate of fire.
yeah but ROF * suppression gives the MG42 quite an advantage in terms of suppression and DPS... at least one that is greater than the 10mp difference to the mg34... any other so called "advantage" is a lie that people like orangepest like to perpetuate...
12 Nov 2020, 15:11 PM
#69
Posts: 783
yeah but ROF * suppression gives the MG42 quite an advantage in terms of suppression and DPS... at least one that is greater than the 10mp difference to the mg34... any other so called "advantage" is a lie that people like orangepest like to perpetuate...
The advantage is pretty minimal, about 8% better suppression from the MG42-less then a tenth of a second in suppression time at long range. But I do agree the MG42 is better then the MG34.
I would however hesitate to call it the "best" MG bar none. I think solid arguments can also be made for the 50cal and the DSHK. No question though that it's superior to the vickers, 34 and maxim.
12 Nov 2020, 17:45 PM
#70
Posts: 682
The .50 is locked behind teching to LT specifically, the MG34 becomes available regardless of which T2 tech you choose.
I guess having to choose between one of the best mgs and indirect is a tough choice.
/s
12 Nov 2020, 20:49 PM
#71
Posts: 1979
I would however hesitate to call it the "best" MG bar none. I think solid arguments can also be made for the 50cal and the DSHK. No question though that it's superior to the vickers, 34 and maxim.
objectively the issue with the 50 is timing arc and tech considerations while the dshk is doctrinal while having worse arc and later timing....
ohh and both are deathloopable...
subjectively id say the 50 and dshk are veeery slightly worse against infantry due to deathloop timing and arc however have an added bonus of completely destroying all light vehicles due to high penetration...
12 Nov 2020, 21:44 PM
#72
Posts: 449
objectively the issue with the 50 is timing arc and tech considerations while the dshk is doctrinal while having worse arc and later timing....
ohh and both are deathloopable...
subjectively id say the 50 and dshk are veeery slightly worse against infantry due to deathloop timing and arc however have an added bonus of completely destroying all light vehicles due to high penetration...
There are literally no issues with the dshk and the .50 cal (except maybe the dshk's EXTREMELY small firing arc). The .50 cal is retarded to play against because it packs up and sets up so damn fast. The smaller firing arc isn't that much either. Then again, I guess it kind of has to be OP since LT doesn't give an AT gun. Doesn't change the fact that it's an extremely frustrating unit though.
12 Nov 2020, 22:03 PM
#73
Posts: 1979
There are literally no issues with the dshk and the .50 cal (except maybe the dshk's EXTREMELY small firing arc). The .50 cal is retarded to play against because it packs up and sets up so damn fast. The smaller firing arc isn't that much either. Then again, I guess it kind of has to be OP since LT doesn't give an AT gun. Doesn't change the fact that it's an extremely frustrating unit though.
ohh yeah i agree...the 50 and dshk are great... i was just pointing out that the 50 and the dshk both have worse arc timing are deathloopable and tech limited/doctrinal than the MG34... in exchange they packup and setup faster have much greater anti armor DPS and have even better suppression than the 42...
now imo due to arc and timing the 42 is very slightly better against infantry than either of these machineguns... an mg42 with its wide arc can shutdown a much larger area far earlier than the 50 or the dshk... and the 42 being a non deathloopable mg means that its less likely to be wiped by small arms fire than the 50 or dshk
in exchange however the 50 and dshk have much greater anti armor firepower thanks to the AP rounds.... it shuts down light vehicles soo efficiently that i usually settle for the DSHK instead of the zis when fighting ostheer or OKW BGHQ (though i prefer the pack howi vs the BGHQ)
13 Nov 2020, 05:30 AM
#74
Posts: 783
....
Where the 50 and DSHK truly excel is in buildings. The fast setup and packup time means they can get out quick when they need to or change windows faster, and being in a building helps nullify the death loop issue. In addition, both their arcs increase to match the MG42 while garrisoned.
Fast setup and packup also let's them be more flexible in terms of positioning and staving off flank attempts.
Yes the deathloop sucks, yes they have smaller arcs and yes they are doctrinal or tech dependant. Timing doesn't change how effective they are against the same infantry squads, it just means they have less time to be effective.
15 Nov 2020, 11:07 AM
#75
Posts: 1979
Where the 50 and DSHK truly excel is in buildings.
absolutely agreed... both MGs are terrifying in buildings... but that kinda limits the potential to certain maps though... some maps dont have buildings at all...
Timing doesn't change how effective they are against the same infantry squads, it just means they have less time to be effective.
uhh... theres a reason why a T0 MG is alot stronger and more effective than a T1/2 MG...
1. a T1/2 MG faces veteran squads a T0 mg is sure to face greenhorn squads...
2. a T1/2 MG faces the threat of certain light vehicles or has less time to exert dominance vs light vehicles...
3. a T1/2 mg faces alot more indirect fire than a T0 mg will
4. and most importantly... a T0 mg allows you to take a ground and hold it defensively with an MG much earlier than a T1/2 one... it is far more difficult to push into an mg then to hold a point with an MG.... and far easier to push into an mg after the T0 phase...
17 Nov 2020, 07:59 AM
#76
Posts: 783
...
So the counter example I would use is the churchill crocodile vs the churchill 7. The churchill 7 is non doc, the churchill 7 is available earlier, but nobody in their right mind would say it's "stronger" then the churchill crocodile.
Likewise, penal PTRS are available earlier then guards, penal ptrs are non doctrinal, but nobody would say they are stronger then guards.
This doesn't mean the units aren't better then those doctrinal option at specific things, but I wouldnt call them "stronger" or "more effective" at the same roles.
17 Nov 2020, 08:18 AM
#77
Posts: 563
There are literally no issues with the dshk and the .50 cal (except maybe the dshk's EXTREMELY small firing arc). The .50 cal is retarded to play against because it packs up and sets up so damn fast. The smaller firing arc isn't that much either. Then again, I guess it kind of has to be OP since LT doesn't give an AT gun. Doesn't change the fact that it's an extremely frustrating unit though.
To me 50 cal crew feels relatively flimsy, even when compared to other support weapons.
"Pain is almost euphoric sam!"
17 Nov 2020, 12:32 PM
#78
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
To me 50 cal crew feels relatively flimsy, even when compared to other support weapons.
It's their worse retreat modifier combined with deathloop. They have 50% less received accuracy on retreat instead of 60% as (afaik all) other units.
20 Nov 2020, 03:33 AM
#79
Posts: 888
The HMG42 is the very definition of crutch unit.
20 Nov 2020, 05:33 AM
#80
Posts: 449
The HMG42 is the very definition of crutch unit.
An intelligent CODGUY post. Marvelous.
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