The maxim thread

Except all 3 of them still can't. It doesn't matter how much better the Vickers and Mg34 might be against 2 squads, none of the 3 MGs can stop blobs of 3+ squads.

the vickers and the MG34 has trouble but it may suppress 2 infantry squads thanks to their large arcs... the maxim has neither the suppression nor the arc to suppress even 2 infantry squads....

Since deathloop is unfixable, why not lower Maxim's reinforcement cost? Losing whole MG crews to deathloop is greatly exaggerated, although I can understand the MP bleed caused by constantly dropping models.

i have an idea... why dont we just make the maxim 5 man then give it mg42 stats? since we cant fix deathloop we can just treat it as a 5 man mg then balance it from there...

It is a normal mg imo - the tradeoff being larger crew and mergeability. I feel that those suggested two front entities will also increase its vision a bit making it less vulnerable when solo guarding map fragments. I'd wait for the patch and test before any other changes are applied. One step at a time (lots of previous patches were 2 steps and it was too much).

its a normal mg with the worst suppression ingame one of the worst arcs ingame and suffers from the worst deathloop animation of all the stock mgs ingame... calling it normal is an insult to how terrible the unit is...

the vickers and the MG34 has trouble but it may suppress 2 infantry squads thanks to their large arcs... the maxim has neither the suppression nor the arc to suppress even 2 infantry squads....

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i have an idea... why dont we just make the maxim 5 man then give it mg42 stats? since we cant fix deathloop we can just treat it as a 5 man mg then balance it from there...

I am aware the Maxim can't suppress 2 squads. However, we were talking about blobs (3+ squads), not properly microed groups of 2 squads. Regarding the 5 men, you still can't give it MG42 stats because it'll be a clone of the MG42 with one extra man. I don't need to elaborate on how broken this is. Furthermore, it seems from the theme of the Soviet faction that they really don't need a defensive machine gun. Conscripts can hold the line themselves with their sandbags, and in the late game, 7-man Conscripts in cover are near-impossible to dislodge.

I am aware the Maxim can't suppress 2 squads. However, we were talking about blobs (3+ squads), not properly microed groups of 2 squads.

then you agree that the maxim is even worse since MG34s and vickers can still stop 2 squads... the maxim atm doesnt stand a chance vs 2 squads at all...

Regarding the 5 men, you still can't give it MG42 stats because it'll be a clone of the MG42 with one extra man. I don't need to elaborate on how broken this is.

it wont be broken however... a 4 man teleporting machinegun would have comparable durability to a 5 man machinegun with deathloop... they are equal in all respects..

Furthermore, it seems from the theme of the Soviet faction that they really don't need a defensive machine gun. Conscripts can hold the line themselves with their sandbags,

the soviets are currently underperforming hard specifically because they cant hold the line till the lategame... theyre completely reliant on the T-70 or doctrinal SVTs to carry their midgame or else they get completely annihilated in the early-mid game

and in the late game, 7-man Conscripts in cover are near-impossible to dislodge.

so would double bren IS in sandbags but UKF doesnt suffer from utter uselessness during the first 20 minutes ehh?

Obviously a Maxim is the worst machine gun in all respects, even when compared with the allies. 50.cal suppresses better, has slightly better arc, and has a faster deployment speed. it can also fight vs light vehicles. And Maxim is just shit !!

if the problem with maxim is incendiary grenades reduce the range of incendiary grenade by 2-5

lol... worst grenade ingame should get worse? xD


Maxim is fine to fight OKW, what do you want more? Easy win units again?

lol... worst grenade ingame should get worse? xD

molotov

Maxim is fine to fight OKW, what do you want more? Easy win units again?

but it isnt... the maxim isnt meta against OKW... in fact the maxim is terrible against OKW beyond low level play... the real meta against OKW is M3 + penal + double engie flamethrowers...

lol... worst grenade ingame should get worse? xD

Good joke

Maxim is fine to fight OKW, what do you want more? Easy win units again?

Read the fucking thread, there's plenty of reasonable suggestions (including the one you quoted) that come nowhere near "making easy win units" again

if the problem with maxim is incendiary grenades reduce the range of incendiary grenade by 2-5

I like this, but what about instead increasing the grenade range suppression penalty? For all factions, I feel like everyone hates getting grenaded from the front by suppressed squads

Obviously a Maxim is the worst machine gun in all respects, even when compared with the allies. 50.cal suppresses better, has slightly better arc, and has a faster deployment speed. it can also fight vs light vehicles. And Maxim is just shit !!

Soviets OP, except you don’t even have a machine gun as Soviets LUL

Even the doctrinal machinegun doesn’t work because it has the worst deathloop in the game.

snip

Of course I agree it is worse, but I wasn't really replying to any of your points, I was replying to a point made by another person who argued that the Maxim's job was to counter blobs. Countering blobs is not the Maxims' job. I wasn't even arguing with you, there was no need for you to intrude anyway.

If Maxim were to receive MG42 firing arc, DPS, and suppression, then all OKW mains might as well just delete the game. There will be literally no way to counter Maxim spam because OKW can't even get any sort of indirect fire out until about 5 minutes into the game, at which point the Soviet player can get like 3 Maxims and control the entire map. You really haven't thought this out, have you?

Conscripts in cover aren't as bad as you make them sound. They get the best sandbags in the game, why not put your Maxims behind them? I also should point out to you that Soviet players can merge Conscripts into other squads, something Tommies can't do, not to mention that literally any light vehicle will run straight over Tommies due to their lack of a snare. Double Bren Tommies come out late, around the same time 7-man Cons will come out.

Maxim needs a buff but it isn't as bad as you make it sound. Soviets need changes, but not as desperately and radical as you make it seem so. Quit exaggerating.

I wish it could just be a 4 man squad and a normal mg but relic's beloved faction flavor and all that.

I wish it could just be a 4 man squad and a normal mg but relic's beloved faction flavor and all that.

Be ready to have the axis mortars grenades and off maps etc nerfed if that happens. These have mostly been designed with 6 men squads as targets. These would be op if soviet team weapons go to 4 men.

If Maxim were to receive MG42 firing arc, DPS, and suppression, then all OKW mains might as well just delete the game. There will be literally no way to counter Maxim spam because OKW can't even get any sort of indirect fire out until about 5 minutes into the game, at which point the Soviet player can get like 3 Maxims and control the entire map. You really haven't thought this out, have you?

why? whats the difference between OST MG42 spam and a theoretical SOV MG42 spam? both are countered by the same strategy....

Conscripts in cover aren't as bad as you make them sound. They get the best sandbags in the game, why not put your Maxims behind them? I also should point out to you that Soviet players can merge Conscripts into other squads, something Tommies can't do, not to mention that literally any light vehicle will run straight over Tommies due to their lack of a snare. Double Bren Tommies come out late, around the same time 7-man Cons will come out.

conscripts are balanced when compared to grenadiers but lack the support infrastructure that makes OST a decent faction... which is kinda why id like units such as the maxim to not be wet noodles

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seems you have big problems playing soviets as soviets, while playing them like Ostheer. xDDD

seems you have big problems playing soviets as soviets, while playing them like Ostheer. xDDD

what are you on about? SOV is playable albeit weak in the current meta... also playing them like ostheer? what are you on? playing SOV like ostheer will result into failure as they lack the support infrastructure of ostheer... going maxim is an absolute death sentence no matter what faction you face...

also the incendiary nade is outright superior to the molotov... there is no way you can claim the incendiary is worse when the molotov exists

lastly you barely play the soviets... you have no idea what the SOV meta is which makes you think the maxim is usable... it isnt

why? whats the difference between OST MG42 spam and a theoretical SOV MG42 spam? both are countered by the same strategy....



conscripts are balanced when compared to grenadiers but lack the support infrastructure that makes OST a decent faction... which is kinda why id like units such as the maxim to not be wet noodles

Do you not understand? MG42 is nowhere near as flankable as the Maxim. Since OKW has ZERO indirect fire in the early game, they will stand ZERO chance against MG42-like Maxims since it'll be practically impossible to flank them. Please go play some other factions before you make your argument.

As for conscripts...they ARE the support infrastructure. Their versatile abilities enable them to do so, although I do agree that they are lacking in the early game. If you want to make Soviet weapon teams Ostheer-tier, you'd have to get rid of merge on the Conscripts at least.

It sounds like you just don't understand how the faction works and want to suit it to your playstyle.

Do you not understand? MG42 is nowhere near as flankable as the Maxim. Since OKW has ZERO indirect fire in the early game, they will stand ZERO chance against MG42-like Maxims since it'll be practically impossible to flank them. Please go play some other factions before you make your argument.

then why is UKF absolutely fine against triple MG42s? why does the 4 conscript + engie flamer build work against MG42 spam? indirect fire isnt the only way one can counter machineguns... oorah + molotov/UC + vickers k or IS or outright vickers dueling/incendiary + storm flank is entirely capable against singleminded MG42 spam...

As for conscripts...they ARE the support infrastructure. Their versatile abilities enable them to do so, although I do agree that they are lacking in the early game. If you want to make Soviet weapon teams Ostheer-tier, you'd have to get rid of merge on the Conscripts at least.

now this should have been your argument all along... yes i agree merge is an extremely potent support tool... perhaps MG42 levels would be a bit too strong on its own... in any case the maxim still needs alot of help but in considering merge MG42 levels might be a bit too much...

then why is UKF absolutely fine against triple MG42s? why does the 4 conscript + engie flamer build work against MG42 spam? indirect fire isnt the only way one can counter machineguns... oorah + molotov/UC + vickers k or IS or outright vickers dueling/incendiary + storm flank is entirely capable against singleminded MG42 spam...

OKW has NONE of the units you just pointed out.

OKW's units can not sprint. OKW does not get flamethrowers without a doctrine.

OKW does not have the UC. Kubelwagen is nowhere near comparable.

OKW can not protect territory they have already taken with a 0-minute MG.

What is OKW's only option to deal with MGs in the early game?

That's right. Flank or avoid. And what happens when you get MG42-like spammable Maxims? You can neither flank or avoid it.

I don't think I need to explain further why giving Maxims Mg42 stats will never work. You can believe what you want to believe but that doesn't mean it's the best thing to do. I recommend you play other factions before assuming what can be done and what can't be done.

OKW does not get flamethrowers without a doctrine.

they get the incediary nade which is outright superior to the shorter ranged/super long animation molotov...

OKW has NONE of the units you just pointed out.

OKW's units can not sprint.

OKW does not have the UC. Kubelwagen is nowhere near comparable.

OKW can not protect territory they have already taken with a 0-minute MG.

What is OKW's only option to deal with MGs in the early game?

That's right. Flank or avoid. And what happens when you get MG42-like spammable Maxims? You can neither flank or avoid it.

I don't think I need to explain further why giving Maxims Mg42 stats will never work. You can believe what you want to believe but that doesn't mean it's the best thing to do. I recommend you play other factions before assuming what can be done and what can't be done.

if this is the case then isnt the problem here not with the maxim with mg42 stats but rather OKW? all factions have solutions against MG42 spam... smoke for USF UC/vickers for UKF oorah for SOV... havent done OST vs OST but id wager that the ost sniper and the long ranged riflenade are half decent against MG42 spam... perhaps OKW could use some sort of stock indirect unlocked by the first truck?

they get the incediary nade which is outright superior to the shorter ranged/super long animation molotov...

Irrelevant. Incendiary grenades are nowhere comparable to flamethrowers, which is the focus of my point.

if this is the case then isnt the problem here not with the maxim with mg42 stats but rather OKW? all factions have solutions against MG42 spam... smoke for USF UC/vickers for UKF oorah for SOV... havent done OST vs OST but id wager that the ost sniper and the long ranged riflenade are half decent against MG42 spam... perhaps OKW could use some sort of stock indirect unlocked by the first truck?

Except we do unlock potent anti-MG options with the first truck. The Luchs and LeIG are fine. Your suggestion literally doesn't change anything because indirect fire is already unlocked with the first truck (if you go Battlegroup). The issue is that OKWs first truck will always set up after the opponent has had enough time to spam MGs and gain ground. It is already not fun dealing with Vickers MGs against the UKF. But the Vickers still has less suppression than an MG42, yet you call for an MG with the same firing arc as the Vickers and even better suppression.

And this is just on an OKW perspective. How do you think Ostheer would feel if Soviets got equal weapon teams but superior light vehicles (T70 and M5 AA) AND larger squad sizes?

Now you're just dodging my argument.

Irrelevant. Incendiary grenades are nowhere comparable to flamethrowers, which is the focus of my point.

id say oorah + molotov is a bit more relevant at disloging the mg42 than engie flamers but i digress...

Except we do unlock potent anti-MG options with the first truck. The Luchs and LeIG are fine. Your suggestion literally doesn't change anything because indirect fire is already unlocked with the first truck (if you go Battlegroup).

nah not the first HQ... i meant the first truck which means indirect is unlocked at the same time u get incendiary nades....

And this is just on an OKW perspective. How do you think Ostheer would feel if Soviets got equal weapon teams but superior light vehicles (T70 and M5 AA) AND larger squad sizes?

im proposing T-70 nerfs though... also the M5AA is strong but the OST flametruck is a bit more punishing than the m5 imo...

plus larger squad sizes isnt automatically an advantage... conscripts for example have much higher target size and lower DPS than grens... they will lose to grens at high medium to long range engagements... cons only beat them at short-low medium range engagements hence conscripts and grens are considered balanced