OKW vs UKF

How about you guys, go and watch some OKW plays in form last tourney, where they have lost?

Pretty much closer to the end of the tourney OKW was consistently loosing games. Wehr wasnt. Even same players who have lost as OKW, have won as Wehr against same allied faction they have played before.

I got it that its easier to look at one particular game, where top player wins as OKW and say that this is somehow proves that OKW is alright.

Sure its possible to win as them, they are not broken faction and they are playble, but it in no means proves that faction is on pair with others and plays nicely.

Reply to the both above posts.

1. It is not one tourney but a few consecutive tourneys.
2. Just funny how U yourselves use a game where one player was mocking another (You don't even realise this) because he is a much better player. You use it to demonstrate the power of sturm?. And then U claim I used one game to show sth. Hard to comment, really.
3. I don't ignore stats. It is actually the other way around. You not only ignore them but also can't understand them imo - mostly because of overcentrating on one stat rather than on how all of them are connected and how actually complicated it is to interpret them.
4. All the above is simply connected to the fact that U try to balance the game not even playing opposing factions.

Just finally reach similar level you have with Ur favourite allied factions/s with the axis faction U try to nerf or claim is OP! You will quickly change the perspective. Seriously do this homework first and then teach others how to use, for example, sturms. You don't need to be that high on the ladder board with opposing factions, just have similar level to Your favourite factions. Probably then You will look at the opposing factions differently (and advance with Ur favourite faction as knowing the enemy is the key btw

The consequetive turnies all had the same version of the game? Between tournyies last few years there where a few patches. All with a small sample size and small number of players.

Did kimbo not play strong with every faction he picked? Was he not arrogant in his play style sometimes? Where did i say sturm are good because kimbo proves it?
I said sturm are not up as you claim. That is all. You keep moaning about how much sturms underpreform. I just simply do not agree. And am tired of the axis up/have it worse forever always sentiment.

Nice attempt to turn the facts around. I got some stats wrong or mis interpet them. It happens. I am a big boy i admit when i am wrong. You just look at single units and not the role or the timing or the faction in general or the opposing factions. Example: directly comparing ce's to sturms ignoring that sturms do a lot more then ce's, wich are unjustly cheaper according to you.

I own and have played every faction. Like i said before i got other responsibilities as well. And my time to play is limited. But i love the crap out of this game. I am probably somewhere high digits on the leaderboard, wont be hard getting all faction on the same level if i had the time.
And playing all factions doesnt automaticly make you a great candidate to be a balance modder. Being to close to the forest and not being able to see the trees apliess to some.

Where did i say axis op nerf axis? Are we making it up as we go now? I am in for toning down td's they are a tad to good and esp ost mediums suffer because off it. I am in favor to buff obers instead off volks. Both of wich a said multyple times.

The consequetive turnies all had the same version of the game? Between tournyies last few years there where a few patches. All with a small sample size and small number of players.

The tourneys are not a small sample. It is the best we've got.

Did kimbo not play strong with every faction he picked? Was he not arrogant in his play style sometimes?

Irrelevant. He is really good with all factions, has nothing to do with OKW vs UKF situation.

Where did i say sturm are good because kimbo proves it?

It wasn't U, that was CODGUY, You started lecturing about how to use sturms. I don't mind but I don't really need a lecture on that. Sturms are 300mp and 30 per model. Just expensive and generally don;t really trade well against other mainline inf. They can be deadly only in some specific circumstances. 80% of time they will be easily beaten by cheaper mainline infantry.

I said sturm are not up as you claim. That is all. You keep moaning about how much sturms underpreform. I just simply do not agree. And am tired of the axis up/have it worse forever always sentiment.

Fair enough. The only thing is that I don't moan but rather react to certain imo silly claims. Right now most players seem to agree that OKW is probably the worst faction to play with. It is hard to read that they are actually not. Especially when it is written by players who don't really play them. I simply believe that such extremely biased opinions should be at least responded to. There are a lot of people reading such forums and instead getting better at the game they may falsely start believing that they lost because allies ar up, not because they simply should learn how to beat certain strats or, more often, just get better at microing their units and choosing favorable engagements.

Nice attempt to turn the facts around. I got some stats wrong or mis interpet them. It happens. I am a big boy i admit when i am wrong. You just look at single units and not the role or the timing or the faction in general or the opposing factions. Example: directly comparing ce's to sturms ignoring that sturms do a lot more then ce's, wich are unjustly cheaper according to you.

It is not about wrong comparisons per se, but about comparisons that cherry pick. Your example of CE is actually a good one. CEs are only 170 manpower and have stock flame upgrade plus can be merged into. Very often this 170 manpower is enough to stop much more expensive units from advancing. Also they have a very cheap reinforcement cost. In many game situations it gives you a lot of benefits (e.g. repurchasing engineer unit, sweeping, flaming, repairing, sidecapping, replacing when lost, laying mines, losing models to mines). From this perspective thaey often may be a much better unit in your army composition than expensive sturms. IMO it migh transfer to like 80% of in game scenarios when it is actually better to have a cheaper unit than a more expensive variant doing basically the same things 80-90% of time.

I own and have played every faction. Like i said before i got other responsibilities as well. And my time to play is limited. But i love the crap out of this game. I am probably somewhere high digits on the leaderboard, wont be hard getting all faction on the same level if i had the time.

We are the same boat here

And playing all factions doesnt automaticly make you a great candidate to be a balance modder. Being to close to the forest and not being able to see the trees apliess to some.

True. But I really analyse tourneys, watch them and I used to create game rules (board game rules) and I do see certain things. At the moment OKW is simply more difficult to play with. All I'm trying to do is to pinpoint where their weaknesses are. And the design of the only engineer unit is imo one of the reasons why they are less forgiving to play with.

Where did i say axis op nerf axis? Are we making it up as we go now? I am in for toning down td's they are a tad to good and esp ost mediums suffer because off it. I am in favor to buff obers instead off volks. Both of wich a said multyple times.

I didn't write specifically that it is U personally writing sth wrong. It is just that negating, for example, the fact that players prefer to play allies when they want to win in a tourney is wrong. It is a fact that is pretty obvious to most players and viewers of the last couple of tourneys. Some very good players were eliminated because their opponent could chose the faction first (based on higher Master League rating). Such players chose the allies. If both players won their allied matches the player who chose allies first played more matches with them and won thanks to it.

The tourneys are not a small sample. It is the best we've got.

Irrelevant. He is really good with all factions, has nothing to do with OKW vs UKF situation.

It wasn't U, that was CODGUY, You started lecturing about how to use sturms. I don't mind but I don't really need a lecture on that. Sturms are 300mp and 30 per model. Just expensive and generally don;t really trade well against other mainline inf. They can be deadly only in some specific circumstances. 80% of time they will be easily beaten by cheaper mainline infantry.

Fair enough. The only thing is that I don't moan but rather react to certain imo silly claims. Right now most players seem to agree that OKW is probably the worst faction to play with. It is hard to read that they are actually not. Especially when it is written by players who don't really play them. I simply believe that such extremely biased opinions should be at least responded to. There are a lot of people reading such forums and instead getting better at the game they may falsely start believing that they lost because allies ar up, not because they simply should learn how to beat certain strats or, more often, just get better at microing their units and choosing favorable engagements.

It is not about wrong comparisons per se, but about comparisons that cherry pick. Your example of CE is actually a good one. CEs are only 170 manpower and have stock flame upgrade plus can be merged into. Very often this 170 manpower is enough to stop much more expensive units from advancing. Also they have a very cheap reinforcement cost. In many game situations it gives you a lot of benefits (e.g. repurchasing engineer unit, sweeping, flaming, repairing, sidecapping, replacing when lost, laying mines, losing models to mines). From this perspective thaey often may be a much better unit in your army composition than fragile sturms. IMO it migh transfer to like 80% of in game scenarios when it is actually better to have a cheaper unit than a more expensive variant doing basically the same things 80-90% of time.

We are the same boat here

True. But I really analyse tourneys, watch them and I used to create game rules (board game rules) and I do see certain things. At the moment OKW is simply more difficult to play with. All I'm trying to do is to pinpoint where their weaknesses are. And the design of the only engineer unit is imo one of the reasons why they are less forgiving to play with.

I didn't write specifically that it is U personally writing sth wrong. It is just that negating, for example, the fact that players prefer to play allies when they want to win in a tourney is wrong. It is a fact that is pretty obvious to most players and viewers of the last couple of tourneys. Some very good players were eliminated because their opponent could chose the faction first (based on higher Master League rating). Such players chose the allies. If both players won their allied matches the player who chose allies first played more matches with them and won thanks to it.

Creating board games seems like good fun. But trying make one from a game such as coh2 with so many variables will be a challange to get it right. Hope you succede with that.

While ce's get the flamer stock and are cheap. They dont get to give healing or put their sweeper away or get a at weapon, they dont get stun nades or great dps at any range and dont have a stock fwrd retreat or a fast and cheap capping vehicle in the same tier. And they are just as squishy if not more so then sturms.
Sturms also tie up main line inf early on. You will need to 2 v 1 sturms in the early game about half the time. Esp vs a competant player. And mainlines charging into sturms tends to halted in their advance as well. They are not a unit you can ignore like ce's and re's when not upgraded.

The okw issue is not that big of a difference with the other factions. Just a little while back ost was subpar and up. While to my recollection ost didnt get much done last patches besides getting pgrens earlier and now they are considerd mostly fine and on par.

Okw has the same with obers coming a tad late late imo. I rarely see obers compared to other inf. Same with pgrens before. Sturms should not be scaling like a elite fighting squad, they fall back in support and ambush roles later on. Ober should be the ai punch for okw.