From watching UTT average kill count for a squad is in the 40s even vs upgraded guards and tommy
Imperial Dane even thinks they're OP. So possibly remove the upgrade and swap with G43? Giving regular grens mg34 that locks out both slots for 90 muni could also be an option.
The combo of super faust (more range and lower cool down), survivability, five men, reduced RA and great moving acc makes them like rifles on steroids. This is on top of T4 buffs like reinforce reduction and faster capping. SVT cons have to give up similar reduced reinforce cost at T4...
5man grens OP?
8 Jun 2020, 12:38 PM
#1
Posts: 833
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
8 Jun 2020, 12:42 PM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
They were used in 100% games where axis won.
The game when they were not used was lost badly.
I can see no other conclusion, but to dub them an overpowered game changer.
The game when they were not used was lost badly.
I can see no other conclusion, but to dub them an overpowered game changer.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Jun 2020, 12:42 PM
#3
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Axis OP
Did you see the absurd axis win rates? Someone nerf them already plz.
Did you see the absurd axis win rates? Someone nerf them already plz.
8 Jun 2020, 12:54 PM
#4
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
VSL Grens are not OP and probably the reason why Axis won so few games because the late-game is almost non-existent compared to Jäger Armour for example.
At least that's my theory. I don't really know why this doctrine is so popular now and it seems more like a case of "group-think" sheep mentality that everyone is using it now. I agree that it's meta for a reason in 1v1 but in 2v2??
At least that's my theory. I don't really know why this doctrine is so popular now and it seems more like a case of "group-think" sheep mentality that everyone is using it now. I agree that it's meta for a reason in 1v1 but in 2v2??
8 Jun 2020, 12:57 PM
#5
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
VSL Grens are not OP and probably the reason why Axis won so few games because the late-game is almost non-existent compared to Jäger Armour for example.
At least that's my theory. I don't really know why this doctrine is so popular now and it seems more like a case of "group-think" sheep mentality that everyone is using it now. I agree that it's meta for a reason in 1v1 but in 2v2??
Yeah, all the top player sheeps who can't think for themselves and just copy glorious 4 digit players meta
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Jun 2020, 13:01 PM
#6
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Yeah, all the top player sheeps who can't think for themselves and just copy glorious 4 digit players meta
Please tell me how Ostheer wins in a 2v2 against ISU + UKF with VSL Grens and Fragmentation bombs.
8 Jun 2020, 13:03 PM
#7
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Please tell me how Ostheer wins in a 2v2 against ISU + UKF with VSL Grens and Fragmentation bombs.
Donno, by using your okw allies JT? I know spec ops flares are amazing, but pfussies have them too, for half the cost.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Jun 2020, 13:05 PM
#8
Posts: 132
What is the reinforce cost on 5 men G43 grens after Tier 4 has been built? Does anyone know?
8 Jun 2020, 13:09 PM
#9
Posts: 600
30
after building T4
28
after building T4
28
8 Jun 2020, 13:45 PM
#10
1 
Posts: 147
They were used in 100% games where axis won.
The game when they were not used was lost badly.
I can see no other conclusion, but to dub them an overpowered game changer.
That's not true at all - Ostheer/Axis won with Assault grenadiers and Lightning War doctrine as well. They were picked up in a lot of games where Axis were handled pretty easily. They're really not difficult to counter and it was disappointing to see Ostheer players crutch on them so heavily rather than making more diverse and powerful compositions.
8 Jun 2020, 13:47 PM
#11
Posts: 600
i think katitof was trying to make a point
8 Jun 2020, 13:50 PM
#12
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Hotfix NOW to fix 5 man Grenadiers.
If balance team doesn’t fix them and they ruin the upcoming 1v1 tournament then the balance team must GTFO REEEEEE
If balance team doesn’t fix them and they ruin the upcoming 1v1 tournament then the balance team must GTFO REEEEEE
8 Jun 2020, 13:52 PM
#13
1 Posts: 147
i think katitof was trying to make a point
Poe's law applies here, as it does to a lot of Katitof's posts
8 Jun 2020, 14:10 PM
#14
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
They're really not difficult to counter and it was disappointing to see Ostheer players crutch on them so heavily rather than making more diverse and powerful compositions.
Yeah, I don't get it either. VSL Grenadiers were not even popular until a few weeks ago even though nothing about them has changed. They are a bit better than regular Grenadiers but that's not enough to pick this doctrine in 2v2 where you need to be able to counter Allied late-game. They are not even close to being good enough to be "crutched upon" either.
8 Jun 2020, 14:43 PM
#15
Posts: 1351
Yeah, I don't get it either. VSL Grenadiers were not even popular until a few weeks ago even though nothing about them has changed. They are a bit better than regular Grenadiers but that's not enough to pick this doctrine in 2v2 where you need to be able to counter Allied late-game. They are not even close to being good enough to be "crutched upon" either.
Well. Some (good) players may believe that there simply may not be lategame due to poor ost infantry scaling.
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8 Jun 2020, 14:47 PM
#16
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Well. Some (good) players may believe that there simply may not be lategame due to poor ost infantry scaling.
Wtf are you ranting about? Ost infantry scales just fine.
8 Jun 2020, 15:03 PM
#17
Posts: 1351
Wtf are you ranting about? Ost infantry scales just fine.
Ur always that polite?
I don't think it does unless 5 men gren doctrine is used. They have trouble recrewing stuff, which is incredibly important after indirect damage sources come to play. Losing a pak when cons are nearby to recrew everything means gg. The same won't happen to allies. They will just pocket all there is to be recrewed. Only this is enough to have balance problems.
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8 Jun 2020, 15:09 PM
#18
Posts: 282
I'm glad that a tournament which is meant to see who is the best player ends up being who has the best faction.
And maybe that if a single doc allow a faction to win, and everything else lose, maybe it is more because the faction is weak and the doctrine bring it in line with others than the other way.
And maybe that if a single doc allow a faction to win, and everything else lose, maybe it is more because the faction is weak and the doctrine bring it in line with others than the other way.
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8 Jun 2020, 15:29 PM
#19
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I guess one could try replacing the VS upgrade with a separate doctrinal unit with 5 KAR98 (or 4 plus a luger that can be upgrade to MP-40/MP-44) and a hand grenade.
Then the unit could be better designed timed and fine tuned.
Then the unit could be better designed timed and fine tuned.
8 Jun 2020, 17:15 PM
#20
Posts: 28
I guess one could try replacing the VS upgrade with a separate doctrinal unit with 5 KAR98 (or 4 plus a luger that can be upgrade to MP-40/MP-44) and a hand grenade.
Then the unit could be better designed timed and fine tuned.
Why would you give them a pistol instead of another rifle? If the point is that five rifles is too strong, you can just make the rifles weaker, because you're making an entirely new squad.
Do you want riflemen to have lugers available to loot and take home with them? Is that it?
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