USF M20 dead?

Mild necro but you can fix M20 by giving it damage profile of 221.

Mild necro but you can fix M20 by giving it damage profile of 221.

Then it should also get the range and armor of the 221 but that would probably end up as nerf to the unit.

Then it should also get the range and armor of the 221 but that would probably end up as nerf to the unit.

Then it should also cost as much and come as quickly as 221, but that would probably end up as a buff to a unit.

Then it should also cost as much and come as quickly as 221, but that would probably end up as a buff to a unit.

So in your opinion 221 is better than M20?

So in your opinion 221 is better than M20?

I love using 221 vs Brits or USF. It has enough damage to bleed a squad enough for the infantry to be easily forced home in the next engagement. It also comes very early and I prefer the steady damage output of 221 over the bursty one of M20. Both vehicles have great utility. I don't think the 5 extra range of M20 is that good if you take a look at the long range DPS. Mobility of early game AI vehicles can be used to great effect attacking squads that have no snare at point blank range sending them home quickly, this is why I'd rather have higher damage than the 5 extra MG range. WC51 also is a better choice than M20 if you want to bleed enemy infantry, not only because of even higher range, but due to better DPS too.

It is a great feature of M20 to have a crew that can repair it, but playing as OKW with 221/223 and going mechanized doesn't feel too different (mechanized for Puma + HEAT). You don't want neither M20 nor 221/223 to be snared and the other damage can be repaired by crew or mechanized repair bots.

LT also appears to be a less appealing teching choice in 2v2+ due to ATG, Pak Howie and AAHT being locked behind CPT and if you plan to go both officers you are so full of infantry that there is no room for doctrinal inf and both officers don't have access to snare, so I prefer to go only 1 officer and it's more appealing to go CPT for me.

Going back to your question, I prefer using 221 vs allies than M20 vs axis.

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well as you pointed out that has more to do with lack of snares than the vehicle themselves.

In addition one is doctrinal and the other Stock.

In addition one is doctrinal and the other Stock.

I hate this type of argument. Doctrines are supposed to add flavour to the game instead of selling you power.

If I drop myself my airborne ATG is it better because it's doctrinal?

I hate this type of argument. Doctrines are supposed to add flavour to the game instead of selling you power.

If I drop myself my airborne ATG is it better because it's doctrinal?

The Airborne commander was designed around the old USF tech tree offering flexibility and it made sense then. Now it is far less useful so I am not sure what you point is.

Point here is 221 takes up a commander slot, M20 does not.

So in your opinion 221 is better than M20?

Hell yes.

A cheap, light vehicle that bullies early and then doubles your munitions / fuel income late AND helps defend that point? Sign me up.

In fact thats a good idea. Swap out the Armor Skirts on the M20 for a 223 style upgrade. Its already the command variant. Let USF get double bars on all its squads by 8 minutes, or else go M20 -> Stuart and still hit a 15 minute Sherman.

Hell yes.

A cheap, light vehicle that bullies early and then doubles your munitions / fuel income late AND helps defend that point? Sign me up.

In fact thats a good idea. Swap out the Armor Skirts on the M20 for a 223 style upgrade. Its already the command variant. Let USF get double bars on all its squads by 8 minutes, or else go M20 -> Stuart and still hit a 15 minute Sherman.

m20 is 240/20 (70)
221 is 220/15
223 is 320/30 (4 pop)

So is not really that cheap.

I hate this type of argument. Doctrines are supposed to add flavour to the game instead of selling you power.

If I drop myself my airborne ATG is it better because it's doctrinal?

I'd give all ostheer vehicles crews if such camparisons are made. And probably stock possibility to upgrade those crews with small arms. Or just add a free bazooka on top of that. Of course 221 should become stock and have an ability to lay anti tank mines. Why not?