Stronger Fraction in 4v4/3v3

For the people who aren't good I would say that axis is stronger in big team games. For 2 main reasons: stock rocket arty to destroy blobs (and blobbing is what every low level player does in those game modes), and Panthers. Now I know that some will say panther is bad and it gets countered by allied TDs and everything,and I get that, but if you actually watch low level players, you will find that they are waaaaay more likely to lose their 640HP tank destroyers than their 800hp high armor panthers. Simply because the lower skill level of players don't have the micro to keep the more flimsy TDs allive.

For high level games I think they are about even.

Who the F builds Panthers in teamgames?

I got to 58 Ost in 3s easily and I either go Elephant or double StuGG. I have built like 2 Panthers the last 50 games as Ostheer. StuGG for life.

Who the F builds Panthers in teamgames?

I got to 58 Ost in 3s easily and I either go Elephant or double StuGG. I have built like 2 Panthers the last 50 games as Ostheer. StuGG for life.

You are a pro.

Who the F builds Panthers in teamgames?

I got to 58 Ost in 3s easily and I either go Elephant or double StuGG. I have built like 2 Panthers the last 50 games as Ostheer. StuGG for life.

Completely agreed with SJ. I am not a pro player yet double StuGG perform much better and break the mith of "Axis require less micro"

I even got amazing results with 2 stugs + CPz4. I would really like to have it 20% armor reduction again, only for the player that owns them to see them really shining.

I would say that allied factions have a bigger forgivness trheshold, even when most of their armor has less durability, their infantry + arty harassment is much better. Very, vveryy roughly speaking

You are a pro.

It’s not about being a pro, double StuGG is better than a single Panther. You do have to micro a bit more but the upside is significant.

There’s a reason people keep making “buff Panther” threads.

You're hurting some feelings here. lol.

What can I say, thats just the experience I had with the game

I specified weak/new players (4-digit club) because i find the higher level games to very well balanced, to the point where i can't even remember the last game where I would(or could) blame "OP this or that" afor my loss.

It’s not about being a pro, double StuGG is better than a single Panther. You do have to micro a bit more but the upside is significant.

There’s a reason people keep making “buff Panther” threads.

We are talking about 4-digit club here, microing 2 560hp vehicles at once is just an accident waiting to happen.

We are talking about 4-digit club here, microing 2 560hp vehicles at once is just an accident waiting to happen.

If they can't micro 2 vehicles they should shut up then.

It’s not about being a pro, double StuGG is better than a single Panther. You do have to micro a bit more but the upside is significant.

There’s a reason people keep making “buff Panther” threads.

If those buff panther threads came with some sensable buff and accomidating nerf it would be something workable. Its just wanting no brainer buffs without looking at the strengths of the panther. And it does have more strenghts then weaknesses.

People mostly want all the good stuff buffed with the usf 0.75 moving acc. Or the sherman HE/pz4 shells.

Some of the good stuff the panther has needs to give somewhat. It will become broken op otherwise imho.

If those buff panther threads came with some sensable buff and accomidating nerf it would be something workable.

Well for the past few months the best Panther idea in my view is to buff the veterancy requirements and I've been repeating it every time the Pather came up in discussion. There are other good ideas as well, amongst a lot of poor ones, so I'm sure the balance team has ideas in mind.

Panthers can be overwhelming in the late game if they reach critical mass and can, as a person mentioned earlier, " club your enemy to death" or just do Blitzkrieg and break the backbone of the Allied armor forces in a single massive engagement. Bonus points if it's well-organised & with a vetted Command Panther, to which they will simply vaporise all but the toughest of Allied TD walls. If it goes badly, then like Kursk you're noobed.

No decent allied team will just let you do that and the pressure will be relentless. A single lost Panther early on without trade can end your game right there and then.

Artillery fests make the expected survival time of infantry rather short in the late game, and veterancy becomes more easily lost to a lucky/skilled placement. In that regard, Obers being sent out to battle vet 0 T0s even with double LMGs....is a bad outcome for Allied players and turns into free vet/heavy bleed at times.

If they can't micro 2 vehicles they should shut up then.

There's several reasons Tiger stalling was so popular lol, that might be one of them

There's several reasons Tiger stalling was so popular lol, that might be one of them

Yup, saved a lot of micro tax. Especially in 1s where you’re doing 50 things at the same time.

Low level and newbies : Axis

Mid: Allies

Top: even

Well for the past few months the best Panther idea in my view is to buff the veterancy requirements and I've been repeating it every time the Pather came up in discussion. There are other good ideas as well, amongst a lot of poor ones, so I'm sure the balance team has ideas in mind.

The lower vet requirement is a good one indeed. I do think its slightly to expensive for 1v1 but if the price is buffed it would make it a bigger problem in team games.
The panther is the maxim of tanks imo. Because it durable, mobile and fast any buff to dps will have very big effects.

The balance team had some suprising chances that made a lot of units viable. I am interested what they come up with for the panther if its within the scope.

Allies are stronger early on but Axis can easily push through any defensive line with it's tanks. Unless you spam tank destroyers, if axis fields a brummbar and a couple of panthers, you're done for. A couple of games ago, the OST pulled 2 brummbars out of the blue along with a sturm from OKW and panthers from it's 3rd partner. They pushed through mines, 3 AT squads and a couple of tank destroyers with ease. ATs pretty much bounced on brum and sturm and panthers dove and took out TDs. Even though we controlled 60% of the map and were winning engagements, once the axis tanks get together to push, it's game over. Allies are better early on and in field control but axis have a Hail Marry resort. Which is better? They are even, you just have to [hold out/win early on] depending what you play.

But I will say to Xenarra that even if you're decent, it depends on Axis players if they lose the Panther. You can be a good allied player but in 3v3 games, it depends on your teammates as well. One player will always carry the game depending on who they are going against and the spawn position and if the enemy is pushing 2v1.

Summa summarum. In teamgames, there is no stronger faction. It depends on a plethora of factors. IMHO, allies are better early on but Axis have a 99% chance of succeeding a Hail Marry push with tanks if they play it smart (you'll be winning 400-100 in VPs and have more points in control across the map but axis will spam tigers, panthers, sturms and brums in secrecy).

Even though we controlled 60% of the map and were winning engagements, once the axis tanks get together to push, it's game over.

Why? The super skilled 3v3/4v4 players are too skilled to lay down mines?

Rhetorical question, of course they are. Putting down mines is too easy.

Why? The super skilled 3v3/4v4 players are too skilled to lay down mines?

Rhetorical question, of course they are. Putting down mines is too easy.

Well, I've spectated games where mines didn't matter. On one hand when you do lay down mines for easier pick off (whether some bomb drop from air or arty or spotting for TDs), you need munitions and doctrines for stuff like that. I'm a USF player that lays down a lot of mines and from my experience, they helped me in around 20% of situations. Usually the enemies are smart enough to send one cheaper tank to the front to cover as much ground as possible before dying and setting off the mines. I've seen good players like that, 3 light vehicles managed to set off 7 mines and waste a lot of my munitions. Not 20 seconds after that, 2 tigers, sturm, and 3 panthers started pushing. Now, I had 2 jacksons and my soviet partner had 2 SUs and the other soviet partner was playing AT squads with infantry and Stalin's organs. 1 Panther got snared twice and 1 Tiger. Rest of the mines were on different chokepoints of Redball. They still pushed like hell and pretty much wrecked us. The jacksons were penetrating around 70% of shots which was not enough to kill large HP tanks before themselves being destroyed by a couple of hits. Basically the Axis played dead, encamped on their side of the map (the 40%). I knew there was trouble on the way when when they weren't even trying to take back some parts of the map. They held the bottom VP and fuel point while we basically held the top and middle. We lost the game even though we were leading most of the game up until that point (400-100 and won most of the infantry engagements).

Mines do help and can be a deciding factor early on if you can snare something expensive and kill it. They are most helpful against inexperienced players. I'll never forget that 3v3 Redball. It was a good game even though we lost because it was a bit funny to see how a sh**load of heavy tanks are just slowly closing in on you and you're sitting there knowing it's the end. Mines pop, doesn't matter, snares happen, doesn't matter. The high hp/armour are doing their thing. I respect the enemy players for such coordination.