Reducing the target size of medium tanks

Just curious how people feel about the recent reduction of most of the target sizes of medium tanks.

Edit: Not medium tanks in general but the target size only.

I like it. I have not played that many games since the patch, but I feel like I am seeing more mediums. Though maybe this is due more to the heavy nerfs than the medium armor buffs, giving the player base less incentive to always go for the heavies and allowing them to explore other doctrines more.

4v4 inevitably still boils down to Allied TD spam or Axis Panthers/Tiger, though I have seen a few earlier mediums instead of TD/big cat first. I've also lost to Comet spam but that's not a med tank.

What I meant was the reduced target size in particular. Not if more mediums are used or not in general.

Reason why I am asking is because I feel like this change was pretty meh.

When you use medium tanks you will get blessed by RNG more often and a tank might get back to safety when before it would have been hit but you can't count on it. This is not really good gameplay IMO. It doesn't lead to more "well-calculated" medium dives or anything like that.

While on the other hand it's added more frustrating moments where you AT-guns or tanks try to finish off a medium only to get denied by RNG multiple times and the tank gets away even though it should have died long ago.

What I meant was the reduced target size in particular. Not if more mediums are used or not in general.

Reason why I am asking is because I feel like this change was pretty meh.

It's "meh" because of the limited value ranges they can assign to mediums. Right now mediums are at 20, which is basically the lowest a medium tank can be (18 is LV territory). Meanwhile, a "premium medium" like a Panther or Comet is at 24.

That means with this patch, mediums went from 8.3% smaller to 16.7% smaller than premium mediums (on average) - that's just not enough of a difference.

It's a good step forward, and its in the right direction, but it's an absolutely tiny step.

Unsure. Seems like AT guns miss a lot more than they should at max range. AT guns are supposed to be reliable IMO and not too RNG inflicted. I understand 2x pak walls were and are pretty brutal for medium tanks, but AT guns aren't exactly good vs mediums at mid-close and can be flanked a lot of times. I don't have a solution for it, but I just think maybe the target size of the smaller mediums like the cromwell is too low.

What I meant was the reduced target size in particular. Not if more mediums are used or not in general.

Reason why I am asking is because I feel like this change was pretty meh.

When you use medium tanks you will get blessed by RNG more often and a tank might get back to safety when before it would have been hit but you can't count on it. This is not really good gameplay IMO. It doesn't lead to more "well-calculated" medium dives or anything like that.

While on the other hand it's added more frustrating moments where you AT-guns or tanks try to finish off a medium only to get denied by RNG multiple times and the tank gets away even though it should have died long ago.

That's just perception and expectations. We are used to something and when changes happens we don't like it. Combined with selection bias.
Just like with infantry squads running away. Something all shots connects and sometimes a squad matrix it's way to the base.

Without counting scatter shots (which would increase the accuracy overall) the number of times a vehicle gets hit or not has been change by so little that people should not over react at all.

Ex:
0.04 acc for pak40 (if Coh2db is right) x size 20 or 22. That's 80% or 88%.
0.025 acc for mediums: 50% or 55% when still or 25%/27.5% when on the move.

Unsure. Seems like AT guns miss a lot more than they should at max range. AT guns are supposed to be reliable IMO and not too RNG inflicted. I understand 2x pak walls were and are pretty brutal for medium tanks, but AT guns aren't exactly good vs mediums at mid-close and can be flanked a lot of times. I don't have a solution for it, but I just think maybe the target size of the smaller mediums like the cromwell is too low.

I think the change was aimed towards making double AT gun stall been less reliable.

4v4 inevitably still boils down to Allied TD spam or Axis Panthers/Tiger, though I have seen a few earlier mediums instead of TD/big cat first. I've also lost to Comet spam but that's not a med tank.

play a different mode.
you're missing the best parts of the game

My only complaint so far is that M10 TD should've gotten the same treatment. The sherman now has a smaller target size than the wolverine/achilles, and I dont think that makes much sense

Overall I think it was a good change but I wouldn't mind mediums getting some more help either. I've been wondering if making the engine damage threshold something like 66% health instead of 75% (for snares) would be a good change

Would help all tanks obviously, but especially mediums since they rely on their mobility more than heavies/casemates

play a different mode.
you're missing the best parts of the game

I did play 1v1 in the past, not really for me tbh. Even entered Operation Charlie Fox for 1v1s, lost in the first bracket but whatever. Enjoyed the armor play much more than the infantry aspects and still prefer the former.

Ex:
0.04 acc for pak40 (if Coh2db is right) x size 20 or 22. That's 80% or 88%.

Yes. Add scatter hits and you're looking at maybe a 3-5 percentage points decrease in the chance to get hit at medium and far ranges. At close to medium ranges nothing really changed because all ATGs and most vehicles have overkill accuracy (100% or more) against 20 or larger target size vehicles at these ranges, except that moving accuracy was slightly reduced.

That's maybe 1-2 hits per 30-40 minute game that miss when they would've hit previously. That's nowhere near enough to justify an experience of ATGs or tanks now supposedly missing a lot more or missing multiple times during engagements; that largely seems to be perception and confirmation bias.

It's clear that the TS changes won't suddenly make mediums extremely durable or that the effects are even noticeable enough, but there isn't much else we could do and it's better than nothing. So far along with the heavy tank changes it seems to have given mediums a comeback, even if the TS changes are largely perceptual (as in players might interpret the changes to be more powerful than they really are and are now more willing to build mediums again), so that's good. It's been fun seeing mediums being used in the tourney and in automatch.

Nice to see my proposal working out and being well received. I like it too.

Any change that gives something to meds that isn't firepower is a welcome one.

Survivability was always med tanks problem, you literally have less then 1 second to react and HOPE to save your med when you run into 2 ATGs.

it encourages medium vehicle play. A welcome change that needs to stay.