Axis factions get worse with every patch

No need to be aggresiv, either on the balance team or other people on this threat.

I think the heavy meta was a thing in 1vs1 and need a nerf, since the tiger/Is/Pershing are the most flexible units in this kind of setup.

But by nerfing the Tiger you also nerf a big chunk of Ostheers commander,and because most of them are useless aside of Ostruppen/Infrantry/Lefh commanders, which the 2 first are not really "meta" in 3vs3 and 4vs4 configuration, they just put the Ostheer as the dedicated support of the OKW.

I think that's the point where comes most frustation.

Imagine getting 9 buffs and 2 nerfs and thinking you got shortchanged in the patch.

Imagine feeling like the patch did something to you in the first place lol

Imagine getting 9 buffs and 2 nerfs and thinking you got shortchanged in the patch.

I gift you 9 T-Shirts and take your house and car. Guess you are better off since it's +9 and -2.

Just had a game where I kept my Tiger Ace alife for half an hour. usually that brought me up to 90 kills. Now it didn't even get half of that.

The patchers are incompetent. People warned them this would happen. The last half year the most discussed topic was how shit Ostheer is. And they still failed. It looked like they had to be talked into "buffing" tier 4. First they didn't even touch it. It was only after a major backlash that they had to do something, only to fail again with shit buffs nobody needed and a giant nerf to the only unit that held Ostheer together. And again people told tham this wouldn't work. I never had high expectations in their work but at this point it's just a farce.

The biggest problem with ostheer right now, is the weak mainline infantry. Other problems it is dealing with, can be dealt by rebalancing other factions.

I don't think that Ost is in need of many changes right now. Ost struggles not because Ost is UP but because 2 of the allied factions are OP.

Brit sections are carrying way too hard, somehow people like IntoTheRain still can't see that fact.

USF riflemen are basically OP vs grens since they have their short range buffs strictly to help them vs volks, when the rifle vs gren matchup was ALREADY balanced. Every allied idiot uses the same pathetic excuse: "But grens don't fight rifles short range anyways, so what the problem." The fucking problem is that when u use rifles to ambush a squad by ie. hiding behind a shot blocker, they perform nearly as good as agrens now! Rifles are already great 0min stock ambush units since they only lose out to sturms early game.

SU seems balanced for now after con and IS2 nerfs though particular units like the KV2, Zis barrage need further adjustments, none of these problems are gamebreaking unlike the sections and rifle (and tOtaLLy iNtenDeD officer garand buffs)

I gift you 9 T-Shirts and take your house and car. Guess you are better off since it's +9 and -2.

Just had a game where I kept my Tiger Ace alife for half an hour. usually that brought me up to 90 kills. Now it didn't even get half of that.

The patchers are incompetent. People warned them this would happen. The last half year the most discussed topic was how shit Ostheer is. And they still failed. It looked like they had to be talked into "buffing" tier 4. First they didn't even touch it. It was only after a major backlash that they had to do something, only to fail again with shit buffs nobody needed and a giant nerf to the only unit that held Ostheer together. And again people told tham this wouldn't work. I never had high expectations in their work but at this point it's just a farce.

+100. U hit the nail on the head here.

The biggest problem with ostheer right now, is the weak mainline infantry. Other problems it is dealing with, can be dealt by rebalancing other factions.

I think it's that, combined with their reliance on static units; the MG42, mortar, Pak40, etc.

There's simply so many auto-fire artillery units these days, that has made that style of play impossible. Staying still means getting hit by either a mortar pit, Pack-Howie, Scott, Mortar HT, ISU-152, etc.

For other factions, this isn't too much of a problem; most other infantry can fire on the move, or rely on more mobile units. For OST, they're basically 'bricked'.

I think it's that, combined with their reliance on static units; the MG42, mortar, Pak40, etc.

There's simply so many auto-fire artillery units these days, that has made that style of play impossible. Staying still means getting hit by either a mortar pit, Pack-Howie, Scott, Mortar HT, ISU-152, etc.

For other factions, this isn't too much of a problem; most other infantry can fire on the move, or rely on more mobile units. For OST, they're basically 'bricked'.

Honestly the only 2 reason I still play Ostheer and not OKW in my AT 2vs2 are: Sniper and spotting scope.

Consider if we goes double OKW and we meet high - skilled Allies sniper play then we are truly fucked. It's painful for me to use Ostheer with their 4 man squads can getting rekt so fast against AoE weapon because they only have 4 man...

That's the really sneaky thing. Ostheer received pseudo buffs and a great nerf: Tiger is gone. All in all I consider Ost a worse faction now in competitive gaming.

Heavy meta as a whole was nerfed though. Everyone was relying on heavies last patch, and everyone's heavy got nerfed/delayed

Heavy meta as a whole was nerfed though. Everyone was relying on heavies last patch, and everyone's heavy got nerfed/delayed

The fact remains that both axis factions need strongheavies more than allied factions. Soviets can easily dominate without an IS-2 as USF can without the Pershing. Ost is supposed to have a strong late game in compensation for early/mid game weakness. Thats why their heavy should of course be better than the heavy of factions that dominate early/mid game.

Honestly the only 2 reason I still play Ostheer and not OKW in my AT 2vs2 are: Sniper and spotting scope.

Consider if we goes double OKW and we meet high - skilled Allies sniper play then we are truly fucked. It's painful for me to use Ostheer with their 4 man squads can getting rekt so fast against AoE weapon because they only have 4 man...

Jaegers are a good OKW counter to snipers, and with overwatch you also get lefh for the late game

i actually think in 1vs1 Ostheer is in a better spot then ever, the nerf of heavies allows for the use of more aggresive infantry commanders at which Ostheer actually is pretty good at.

In 1vs1 Ostheer doesnt even need a Tiger to stay competitive, it's early to mid game is amazing. You have very fast infantry upgrates and mg42 + fastest and deadliest light vehicles. Round it up with an reasonable cheap t3 you can really apply some great pressure.

In 2vs2 and above things look a little bit diffrently, but still the nerf of heavy tanks gave Ostheer a lot of posiblities, just to name some.

5 men grens, sniper, camo units , lfh, Elefant. Sure the I-win Tiger got nerfed but it's not like Ostheer is out of options.

The fact remains that both axis factions need strongheavies more than allied factions. Soviets can easily dominate without an IS-2 as USF can without the Pershing. Ost is supposed to have a strong late game in compensation for early/mid game weakness. Thats why their heavy should of course be better than the heavy of factions that dominate early/mid game.

actually this is not true espacially not in 1vs1. It's a misconcept of Ostheer lategame superiority. Basically in the soviet matchup Ostheer is the one with a better early game. This is becouse of faster light vehicles, faster infantry upgrates, mg42 and so on. Then the T70 comes around and the soviet has a powerspike, only to be countered by a p4 when OH has that upper hand again.

So again the vital point of an 1vs1 is the moment you Ostheer gets t2 up. Becouse then your Infantry gets upgrates that allow you to win 1vs1 engagements (either 5 men or whatever you like) and then your light vehicle comes into play (that forces your oppoinent to avoid it = map control , or forces him to build a pak which is a big mp drain). Not to forget that you get access to Panzergrens, which are the strongest infantry at the time they arrive (soviets cant really afford schocks that fast becouse of the threat of flamethrower halftrack)

EDIT: Not to forget that the first minutes of a 2vs2 are also Ostheers strength, Becouse of less flanking possibilites and the fact thats its difficult to outdps , or even focus down an mg42 with unupgrated infantry (if you flank it i just chill and shoot you down with grens, or move it away forcing you to chase it, resulting in low dps). You basically only need to supress 1 infantry sqad and keep them supressed with pioneers in oreder so secure map control.

This might be a personal thing, but i think it is easier for me to supress one sqad in the early game, then to get intel of the mg42, and then set up a good flank, that doesnt end up in a big mp bleed, or a wipe on retreat.

The fact remains that both axis factions need strongheavies more than allied factions. Soviets can easily dominate without an IS-2 as USF can without the Pershing. Ost is supposed to have a strong late game in compensation for early/mid game weakness. Thats why their heavy should of course be better than the heavy of factions that dominate early/mid game.

This is a mindset problem. It might have been the idea 6 years ago that Ostheer was supposed to be a late game faction, but that idea has changed a long time ago. You are not supposed to just win games by surviving the early/mid game until you can get your OP heavy tank. You are supposed to outplay your opponent in every stage of the game to get your win.

whines aXis factions gets worse
/watches cohrona cup: Ost dominating.

The patches make Ost almost unplayable in 1v1. In WC19, Luvnest made a comment about not choosing infantry doctrines for Ost because those dont come with a Tiger.

Now that relic nerfed all heavies. Ost can run rampant with 5 men doctrine! Double MG and Double Pak basically locks out Allies plays now! 1-hit Tellers are too good too good!

Pak faster tracking invalidate T70 and T34. P4 smaller target size allows it to dominate more than ever since it comes before 85.

TA is still TOO cheap. I just watched Orangepest call in a TA and boom GAME OVER.

1v1 Ost is unplayable because they can block big areas and deny resources!

Poor wermaht no more win button.. How am I supposed to live now...
Seriously i dont get it why so many tears here wermaht is still damn strong espiecally in teamgames.
True is as wermaht u only pick commander for your playstyle or for fun not because your faction have gaps. For example brits without royal arty are useless that's the real problem. Double at gun and Tiger still rapes brits if u pick wrong commander extra officer or medics dont change that