USF teching system revamp, aftermath.

The USF teching system revamp allowed easy access to USF team weapons and light vehicles.

These vehicles and support weapons where designed to combined with handicap in their access so the where where OP. The result is that the USF originally designed as an "offensive" faction can turtle up (in combination with ambulance) which creates allot of issues. Things become even worse vs ostheer who original designed as defensive faction have even more trouble attacking USF player that turtle up.

To make thing even worse powerful light vehicles are available to the USF like WC51/M20 that forces axis faction to invest early in tech to counter further increasing the problem.

Current teching system:

LT or Capt cost 250/35:
give access to HMG/ATG

Unlock mechanized platoon command post:
50/20
gives access to m20(240/20)/Stuart(270/70)

Unlock mechanized Company command post:
50/20
gives access to Pack howizter(340)/AAHT (310/50)

One has the option to either invest 300/55 with one officer
or invest 500/70 with 2 officer
before going to unlock the Major.

The following suggestions aim at:
Reducing the power spikes
Reducing turtleing capability
Make LT path less attractive and Captain more attractive

Changes to units:
HMG
AP rounds move to Vet1
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M20
DPS/range lowered
skirt upgrade now locked behind "mechanized platoon command post" now cost fuel/MP and can restore range DPS if there is need to.
Mine immobilization replaced by engine damage
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AAHT
Remove suppression on the move lower manpower cost and maybe reduce fuel cost to by 10.
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LT/Captain Bazooka moved back to captain bar to LT, weapons now require mechanized unlock before becoming available. Captain now has access to grenade grenade now share CD (Major looses access to smoke grenade) Remove shared veterancy from LT/Cap.
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Tech system changes:
Mortar moved to Captain
Pack howitzer doctrinal
or Pack howitzer to major and redesigned while Scott becomes doctrinal
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LT/Captain fuel cost reduced to 25-15 now unlocks 2 units HMG/M20 and ATG/Mortar extra fuel cost move to mechanized" unlock
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Major unlock no longer available without "mechanized" unlock
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Imo these change will allow USF earlier game power and turteling power to reduced without overlap effecting the faction and help with USF vs Ostheer match up.

(edited and corrected some values thanks to BlueKnight)

Captain is already meta in 2v2. It does not need to be made more attractive compared to LT.

Captain is already meta in 2v2. It does not need to be made more attractive compared to LT.

That is probably because pack howitzer is OP. If you remove the Pack, Captain will not been seen again.

In 1vs1 in the last tournament as start:
Lieutenant vs Captain 88% vs 12%.

Unlock Mechanized Platoon vs Unlock Mechanized Company 98% vs 23 %

That is probably because pack howitzer is OP. If you remove the Pack, Captain will not been seen again.

Well obviously if you just remove units from a tech tier no one will bother with it anymore. It's like saying Soviet T3 would be dead without T70. Or saying OKW mechanized would be dead without Luchs or whatever.

IMO USF doesn't need all these big changes. Some units are just slightly too good and need to be nerfed. As I said plenty of times. Non-doctrinally: Pak Howitzer, Scott, Jackson and doctrinally: WC51, Recon Support Pak Howi+LMG Para drop.

I probably forgot some stuff but these are the worst offenders IMO.

Then there are obviously also the special snowflake USF "features" that will never be touched like pop cap abuse and extra units but they will never touch those anyway.

Well obviously if you just remove units from a tech tier no one will bother with it anymore. It's like saying Soviet T3 would be dead without T70. Or saying OKW mechanized would be dead without Luchs or whatever.

IMO USF doesn't need all these big changes. Some units are just slightly too good and need to be nerfed. As I said plenty of times. Non-doctrinally: Pak Howitzer, Scott, Jackson and doctrinally: WC51, Recon Support Pak Howi+LMG Para drop.

I probably forgot some stuff but these are the worst offenders IMO.

If the Pack howizter remain in captain and the mortar in T0, I do not really a solution, it will either be OP or not cost efficient compared to mortar.

The timing is simply wrong.

In addition as long as USF have access to a better indirect fire weapon they will be able to bully Ostheer.

If the Pack howizter remain in captain and the mortar in T0, I do not really a solution, it will either be OP or not cost efficient compared to mortar.

The timing is simply wrong.

In addition as long as USF have access to a better indirect fire weapon they will be able to bully Ostheer.

Yes, but the balance team said multiple times they will not make changes like that. I don't think there is any point in theory-crafting about it.

If the Pak Howitzer wasn't as OP as it is the issue wouldn't be this big anyway.

Captain is already meta in 2v2. It does not need to be made more attractive compared to LT.

I like that too, USF certainly plays differently in 2v2 where it is best to meta with CPT. In 1on1 and based on experience, it's almost 50:50 depending on playerstyle if the opponent is going LT or captain. It's a matter of reading the enemy's movement and correctly predict what they are going to do (even more important if you never faced the opponent before and don't know their playstyle).

Contrary some claims the LT/Captain captain choice is not 50:50 in 1vs1.

This is clear from the WC2019 where the ratio was 88/12 as I have pointed out in post 3.

Go read the full sentence of the post carefully, do not nickpit parts of it out of context for arguing schematics before commenting. Also, stats from WC2019 is not full game stats.

I don’t see why USF should be neutered like that.

I also don’t understand your obsession with removing power spikes. Who told you they’re a bad thing?

Yes, but the balance team said multiple times they will not make changes like that. I don't think there is any point in theory-crafting about it.

Allot of things has been said that will happen and eventually did happen.

Point here is that something has to be done. LT is a far better choice and Ostheer are losing badly.

If the Pak Howitzer wasn't as OP as it is the issue wouldn't be this big anyway.

If one nerfs the Pak people will use the mortar instead, they will always start with LT and no one will unlock the mechanized (unless desperately needing AA).

I don’t see why USF should be neutered like that.

Then read again more carefully this time, it is clearly explained.

I also don’t understand your obsession with removing power spikes. Who told you they’re a bad thing?

I am not obsessed with power spikes and I am not suggesting to removed only to tone them down.
Allowing earlier officer and earlier M20 as suggested here will increase the power spike making USF even more powerful vs Osteer. It is only natural that the spikes need to be toned down.

Simply no

After years USF are finally in a good place bar a few units and doctrine changes. There is no “turtle" issue, just USF players that build an extra MG or two to help contain OKW mech builds that lack leig smoke. You know what OKW can do if USF build a load of support weapons and park a ambo next to them like this? Drop a pinpoint stuka on their heads and watch as all those 50.s and pak howis become free exp.

I think the issue here lies between the keyboard and the chair.

So ? Only OKW can be in same time turtle and agressive faction with strong lights and heavy armor and of course with non doc late game arty? Meantime defensive tactics should be banned for usf because what? You read that in game instruction ?

If u want Scott to be doctrinal then pls can we make stuka zu fuss doctrinal too?