What if allow Grenadier build trench？
7 Mar 2020, 14:01 PM
#1
Posts: 731
Just discuss，although UKF have it but hard to see people build it，because IS have sandbag too？So,if give Ost Grenadier non-doc trench people will use it more frequent？
7 Mar 2020, 14:19 PM
#2
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Sandbag/trenchs should be work for engineer unit and not mainline...
Threchs should have a small cost be password protect but be able to captured and dismantled...
Threchs should have a small cost be password protect but be able to captured and dismantled...
7 Mar 2020, 14:44 PM
#3
Posts: 3260
As appealing as the idea of standardised bags are, they're this way for a reason.
Infantry Sections are builders because Sappers are a T1 unit and Sections are cover dependent. You'd effectively make the whole faction map dependent if you took their bags away.
Volksgrenadiers build bags because Sturmpioneers are already an overloaded unit: making them the bag builder too might be overkill.
Conscripts build their own bags because they're hybrid utility units, and if Engineers built the bags it'd be a net buff to the Penal build.
USF would be even more powerful if Riflemen built their own bags. I could perhaps see an argument for Grens to build bags instead of Pios.
The best balancing measure for bags I can think of is to replace all nondoctrinal sandbags with the Conscript variant. That'd prevent you from building bags behind things as easily, making building cover a risk if the enemy then takes your position.
Infantry Sections are builders because Sappers are a T1 unit and Sections are cover dependent. You'd effectively make the whole faction map dependent if you took their bags away.
Volksgrenadiers build bags because Sturmpioneers are already an overloaded unit: making them the bag builder too might be overkill.
Conscripts build their own bags because they're hybrid utility units, and if Engineers built the bags it'd be a net buff to the Penal build.
USF would be even more powerful if Riflemen built their own bags. I could perhaps see an argument for Grens to build bags instead of Pios.
The best balancing measure for bags I can think of is to replace all nondoctrinal sandbags with the Conscript variant. That'd prevent you from building bags behind things as easily, making building cover a risk if the enemy then takes your position.
7 Mar 2020, 16:32 PM
#4
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Volksgrenadiers build bags because Sturmpioneers are already an overloaded unit: making them the bag builder too might be overkill.
If they moved the sandbags to Sturms, reduced wire set up time by 20% and made them 260mp, I'd take it.
7 Mar 2020, 16:54 PM
#5
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
If they moved the sandbags to Sturms, reduced wire set up time by 20% and made them 260mp, I'd take it.
Dont forget to make them start with mp40 and have to buy 4 stg for 90 muni.
7 Mar 2020, 16:59 PM
#6
Posts: 1392
They don't need that.
But I think hull-down should be fused with trenches. That would be a passive buff for some commanders.
Edit: What you are looking for is, that normal silk-bunker should have trench's stats when not upgraded.
- so small squads could enter them and hold ground better. (actual they get destroyed really fast)
- upgraded they get old strats and get easy hit by tanks etc.
But I think hull-down should be fused with trenches. That would be a passive buff for some commanders.
Edit: What you are looking for is, that normal silk-bunker should have trench's stats when not upgraded.
- so small squads could enter them and hold ground better. (actual they get destroyed really fast)
- upgraded they get old strats and get easy hit by tanks etc.
7 Mar 2020, 17:39 PM
#7
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Dont forget to make them start with mp40 and have to buy 4 stg for 90 muni.
Nah
7 Mar 2020, 18:07 PM
#8
Posts: 3260
If they moved the sandbags to Sturms, reduced wire set up time by 20% and made them 260mp, I'd take it.
260 MP Sturms with bags sounds like an amazing recipe for 4x Sturmpio.
7 Mar 2020, 18:09 PM
#9
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
They have something called bunker.
If part of the cost of the bunker was moved to the upgrades, you could probably use it as cover.
If part of the cost of the bunker was moved to the upgrades, you could probably use it as cover.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
7 Mar 2020, 18:24 PM
#10
Posts: 1392
They have something called bunker.
If part of the cost of the bunker was moved to the upgrades, you could probably use it as cover.
That is what I am talking about.
Bunker has very bad stats. Why not give it same stats as silt-trench. Upgraded they get nerfed to actual level. Soi they don't get op.
Edit: the upgrades version (I mean with HMG) could lock garrison.
7 Mar 2020, 18:44 PM
#11
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
That is what I am talking about.
Bunker has very bad stats. Why not give it same stats as silt-trench. Upgraded they get nerfed to actual level. Soi they don't get op.
Edit: the upgrades version (I mean with HMG) could lock garrison.
Not sure what those stats are. HP difference, armor and size?
I don't mind starting first with "bad" stats, if it means people can actually use them to begin with.
There's also the thing that i don't remember what type of cover the bunker/trenches provide. I do know (unless it was fixed) that some provided heavy cover instead of garrison which meant they did fine against grenades.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
7 Mar 2020, 18:50 PM
#12
Posts: 1392
Not sure what those stats are. HP difference, armor and size?
I don't mind starting first with "bad" stats, if it means people can actually use them to begin with.
There's also the thing that i don't remember what type of cover the bunker/trenches provide. I do know (unless it was fixed) that some provided heavy cover instead of garrison which meant they did fine against grenades.
Mainly the hit-box, so AT-guns and tanks don't hit it that easy, but explosives do.
It is good, that HMG-bunker etc. are more easy to counter, because it opens balancing questions.
Edit: at the moment I am working on a test version. I will send a video in some time to present the idea. I also want some more visual indicators for the upgrade.
7 Mar 2020, 19:10 PM
#13
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Mainly the hit-box, so AT-guns and tanks don't hit it that easy, but explosives do.
It is good, that HMG-bunker etc. are more easy to counter, because it opens balancing questions.
Edit: at the moment I am working on a test version. I will send a video in some time to present the idea. I also want some more visual indicators for the upgrade.
Just clarification. Hitbox or size?
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
7 Mar 2020, 19:17 PM
#14
Posts: 1392
Just clarification. Hitbox or size?
Size, I am sorry. My language barrier
Edit: target_size trench: 2 | bunker: 26
7 Mar 2020, 20:58 PM
#15
Posts: 1392
...
Yep, wasn't that difficult to make.
1. Changing german silt_bunker traget_size to 2 (from 26), add a requirement for the MG-upgrade increasing sice by received_accuracy_modifier by *13 (=26) back to original.
2. Change pass_through to same as trench.
(I also changed that MG-upgrade blocks garrison)
..........
Now german silt_bunker is a worse version of silt_trench. (less HP) but is more immune versus AT-guns and Tanks (hit ~1 time by 2-3 shots). After upgrade it will be hit by every shot. So it become a more useful defensive position if not upgrades. (with upgrade same as kurrent version)
I changed price to 50MP -> MG upgrade 100MP and 60mun
(medic and HQ to 100MP, 5fuel, 30mun)
7 Mar 2020, 21:06 PM
#16
Posts: 1392
Just discuss，although UKF have it but hard to see people build it，because IS have sandbag too？So,if give Ost Grenadier non-doc trench people will use it more frequent？
I changed how silt_bunkers works.
If you are interested to test it we can look at it.
7 Mar 2020, 21:15 PM
#17
Posts: 731
They don't need that.
But I think hull-down should be fused with trenches. That would be a passive buff for some commanders.
Edit: What you are looking for is, that normal silk-bunker should have trench's stats when not upgraded.
- so small squads could enter them and hold ground better. (actual they get destroyed really fast)
- upgraded they get old strats and get easy hit by tanks etc.
Bundle with hull down is good idea,and maybe hull down should be by tank itself no need infantry to dig？
7 Mar 2020, 21:22 PM
#18
Posts: 1392
Bundle with hull down is good idea,and maybe hull down should be by tank itself no need infantry to dig？
I like that you need inf to to it. So it has a handy-cap situation. The community-team only has to fix the bug, when the squad dies the tank will be bugged in the hull-down animation. Also the pics have to be fixed, now we have the logo on KV for the ability. ^^
7 Mar 2020, 22:39 PM
#19
Posts: 1392
After some test I can say:
The bunker now works like trenches, trenches are very RNG. Collission are removed at that enity.
If you build bunker it gets *10 received_accuracy_modifier to become 20 (like empty trench). With garrison it becomes 2. Upgrades up to 26.
The bunker now works like trenches, trenches are very RNG. Collission are removed at that enity.
If you build bunker it gets *10 received_accuracy_modifier to become 20 (like empty trench). With garrison it becomes 2. Upgrades up to 26.
7 Mar 2020, 23:28 PM
#20
Posts: 731
After some test I can say:
The bunker now works like trenches, trenches are very RNG. Collission are removed at that enity.
If you build bunker it gets *10 received_accuracy_modifier to become 20 (like empty trench). With garrison it becomes 2. Upgrades up to 26.
Interesting,can download in steam community？And IMO the best part of trench is it is free（LOL）
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