ISU-152 HE shell range

The Isu-152 being able to fire high explosive shells to out to the same range as it's armor piercing shells(70) is a relic from earlier iterations of the game where the ele was non doc from wehr and the jt could pierce world objects. Thankfully both of those are gone but the Isu one shotting vetted rakettens and high vet squads from the fog of war remains and it is by far the most cancerous thing in team games 2v2 & up.

There have been so many positive changes to prevent cheesy units wiping squads and deleting veterancy over the years but this one slips through the cracks every patch cycle somehow. It forces one player on your team to always pick breakthrough doc or ele and its tiresome to pick a doctrine to potentially counter one unit while the isu counters your entire army and promotes stale and cheesy game play where the sov player will eventually amass a isu and 2 su85s with focus sight so spot for it with there 75 sight range(which in itself is absurd) and shocks/guards 7 man cons to screen and then just creep forward deleting every squad/team weapon or tank in front of it.

The only comparable unit, the brumbar fires a slow projectile that will miss squads at long range unless you anticipate there movement with attack ground which creates a large micro tax to get the most out of it while the ISU's projectile travels the same speed as a regular tank shell so it can hit moving squads at 70 range and requires 0 input or micro to wipe out infantry.

The brum also got some heavy nerfs recently to both armor(260/320 at vet 2 to 240/288 at vet 2) & range(40 to 35) because it could take out at guns frontally wile the isu can do the same from a range the at guns cant even return fire and your counters are ineffective, stugs and jp4s will penetrate 52% of the time since it also has 340 armor which forces you into the extremely expensive panther which is a terrible design choice to force players to spend 185 fuel to hope to penetrate a tank(64% chance even then) while the 3 allied factions spend between 130-145 to hard counter tigers & brums from well out of return fire range

I propose a reduction in the range to at least 50 for the HE rounds so that it at least has to come into range of its one non doc counter, the panther to wipe infantry and at guns or to make it a timed ability or a barrage ability like the JT to promote some counter play.

50 is too short. I agree ISU is op but it would be better to either reduce HE and AP range to 60 or just reduce the AOE of the shell a little.

I said 50 because that would force the isu to get in to range of a pak to wipe it which if you screen with grens(combined arms) would deter this from happening for fear of the faust. A 50 range superior brumbar that can switch to being a ele light is still amazing, if it was changed to a barrage ability 70 would be balanced

The Isu-152 being able to fire high explosive shells to out to the same range as it's armor piercing shells(70) is a relic from earlier iterations of the game where the ele was non doc from wehr and the jt could pierce world objects. Thankfully both of those are gone but the Isu one shotting vetted rakettens and high vet squads from the fog of war remains and it is by far the most cancerous thing in team games 2v2 & up.

There have been so many positive changes to prevent cheesy units wiping squads and deleting veterancy over the years but this one slips through the cracks every patch cycle somehow. It forces one player on your team to always pick breakthrough doc or ele and its tiresome to pick a doctrine to potentially counter one unit while the isu counters your entire army and promotes stale and cheesy game play where the sov player will eventually amass a isu and 2 su85s with focus sight so spot for it with there 75 sight range(which in itself is absurd) and shocks/guards 7 man cons to screen and then just creep forward deleting every squad/team weapon or tank in front of it.

The only comparable unit, the brumbar fires a slow projectile that will miss squads at long range unless you anticipate there movement with attack ground which creates a large micro tax to get the most out of it while the ISU's projectile travels the same speed as a regular tank shell so it can hit moving squads at 70 range and requires 0 input or micro to wipe out infantry.

The brum also got some heavy nerfs recently to both armor(260/320 at vet 2 to 240/288 at vet 2) & range(40 to 35) because it could take out at guns frontally wile the isu can do the same from a range the at guns cant even return fire and your counters are ineffective, stugs and jp4s will penetrate 52% of the time since it also has 340 armor which forces you into the extremely expensive panther which is a terrible design choice to force players to spend 185 fuel to hope to penetrate a tank(64% chance even then) while the 3 allied factions spend between 130-145 to hard counter tigers & brums from well out of return fire range

I propose a reduction in the range to at least 50 for the HE rounds so that it at least has to come into range of its one non doc counter, the panther to wipe infantry and at guns or to make it a timed ability or a barrage ability like the JT to promote some counter play.

Don't fix something which isn't broken. Also stop comparing isu with brumbar. What do soviets have to counter axis long range heavy assault guns like ele and JT? Be reasonable. You can easily kill isu by swarming just like ele is killed when rushed by multiple tanks.

This argument that you have to make panthers to counter isu is so stupid because this is exactly the purpose of this game. You make mg for infantry. Tanks for infantry and AT guns for tanks. You have to make units which counter other units because every unit has a weakness. You have to find it.

Brumbar is the unit similar to the isu and is balanced by having weaknesses, none of which the isu has. My point with the panther is, its the only nondoc unit able to pen it and its so expensive to get that its incredibly hard to counter.

When facing a ele you shift your army more towards infantry and its nullified, when facing ISU thats not an option.

You have a 70 range Elephant. Stop crying.

You have a 70 range Elephant. Stop crying.

So pick one of two commanders every game? that's not helpful

So pick one of two commanders every game? that's not helpful

Surprisingly there are only two commanders with isu too. That's not helpful either because when you know enemy will make heavy TD.

Brumbar is the unit similar to the isu and is balanced by having weaknesses, none of which the isu has. My point with the panther is, its the only nondoc unit able to pen it and its so expensive to get that its incredibly hard to counter.
option.

Yeah it has no weaknesess like being slower, not firing on the move, costs 110 fuel more and takes 22 pop cap.
In fact, it is really so expensive to field a 185 fuel unit to counter a 260 fuel unit, even Elefant is cheaper at 245.

Lower rear armor to Ele levels.

If you put a gun behind my head for further nerfs, just reduce HE shell to 60 range.

If you put a gun behind my head for further nerfs, just reduce HE shell AoE.

Fixed

Surprisingly there are only two commanders with isu too. That's not helpful either because when you know enemy will make heavy TD.

Yeah but The isu docs have shocks/guards that helps you early game. None of the ele doc have that.

I can be wrong, JadTig has HE ability with 90 range.

ISU is multi role. ELe is specialist. I dont use ISU for AT power, I prefer ISU for HE mode. ISU has hard time to pen Tiger, Ele doesnt with IS2

OP makes very good points and speaks from experience in higher tiers of gameplay. ISU is a huge bully in teamgames and its ability to wipe retreating vet3 full health squads at 70 range is absurdly frustrating, and as he also points out, requires next to 0 input from the player in terms of micro to pull it off. Let's not forget it nullifies its only logical counters as well, AT guns, thus forcing a player to pick Ele or JT just to have a CHANCE to counter it (doesn't guarantee jack.) A single T34 supporting that ISU-152 and you can bet your Heavy TD is getting rammed down its throat whenever it tries to engage said ISU, then donkey-punched by the rest of the Allied players' entire army.

Dropping standard HE range to 55 or 60 (I think AT guns are 60, right?) would help a lot with the incredible abuse an ISU can lay down without even being micromanaged. It doesn't necessarily have to be as low as 50, but it definitely is waay too long right now. This thing has no real counters that aren't buried deep in a doctrine, and even those are soft counters, there is no hard counter. It destroys pretty much everything available non-doctrine from Axis period.

OP makes very good points and speaks from experience in higher tiers of gameplay. ISU is a huge bully in teamgames and its ability to wipe retreating vet3 full health squads at 70 range is absurdly frustrating, and as he also points out, requires next to 0 input from the player in terms of micro to pull it off. Let's not forget it nullifies its only logical counters as well, AT guns, thus forcing a player to pick Ele or JT just to have a CHANCE to counter it (doesn't guarantee jack.) A single T34 supporting that ISU-152 and you can bet your Heavy TD is getting rammed down its throat whenever it tries to engage said ISU, then donkey-punched by the rest of the Allied players' entire army.

Dropping standard HE range to 55 or 60 (I think AT guns are 60, right?) would help a lot with the incredible abuse an ISU can lay down without even being micromanaged. It doesn't necessarily have to be as low as 50, but it definitely is waay too long right now. This thing has no real counters that aren't buried deep in a doctrine, and even those are soft counters, there is no hard counter. It destroys pretty much everything available non-doctrine from Axis period.

Yes and as I said the ISU doctrines come with the perfect tools to take out JT and Ele. Mark target + IL2 precision bombing. T34 ram is non-doctrinal so the combination of T34+Bombs+Mark Target+ SU 85+ ISU makes using JT/Ele very very hard.

The logical non-doc counter to the ISU are panters, not AT guns. Panthers have 50 range and have blitz. ISUs are slow and require a manual reload in order to be able to damage them and can't fire on the move.

The logical non-doc counter to the ISU are panters, not AT guns. Panthers have 50 range and have blitz. ISUs are slow and require a manual reload in order to be able to damage them and can't fire on the move.

So the solution is to dive a 260 fuel ISU with multiple 185 fuel Panthers and hope for the best? Sounds very balanced.

Good thing Soviets can't spam mines, urra+snares, use Zis3 and SU85.

So the solution is to dive a 260 fuel ISU with multiple 185 fuel Panthers and hope for the best? Sounds very balanced.

Good thing Soviets can't spam mines, urra+snares, use Zis3 and SU85.

3 Pumas will do the job just as fine, especially in 1v1/2v2.

In team games, if axis don't have their own super heavy TDs, its on them and not on the ISU.

3 Pumas will do the job just as fine, especially in 1v1/2v2.

In team games, if axis don't have their own super heavy TDs, its on them and not on the ISU.

Sure lets's all use Pumas to kill late game ISU. Katitof said it so it must work.

Ele/JT are not a reliable ISU counter because of IL2 precision bombing + mark target coming in the same doctrine.